Interesting? observed hand, live 10/20 deep stack KK PF line

[Percula]

10/20 game at the Wynn. The "hero" had about $30K and the villian was slightly covered by the hero, both covered the table and have been having at each other verbally and in any hand the two were in. There was some talk about playing AK and the hero basically took the line that he liked to RR big with AK and the villian took that as "total BS, you will lose a lot doing that, etc".

PF: UTG+1 raises to $100 (nothing new for him, he was stradling everytime he was utg and RR to $100 to $200), UTG+2 (loose PF, solid post flop) calls, folds to hero in LP who flat calls, folds to the villian on the button who RR to $700, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, hero RR to $2500, villian is insta AI, UTG+1 and UTG+2 folds and hero calls.

Villian proudly tables QQ and looks like he just got shot in the nuts when he seen the KK come over after the river. He was having visions of AK getting stomped by QQ... He kept mouthing off that the hero's AK was no good and he better not suck out and the like.

I talked to the hero in the hand later and ask what his thinking on the hand was... (paraphasing here) "I set him up, he was pissed off and was head hunting me all night. He doubled me thru early in the session when I hit a A high straight on the river, he was mad and wanted to bust me. So when the topic of AK came up I rubbed it in. I know he is only RR there with AA, KK or QQ, and I liked my odds that he did not have AA since UTG+1 likely had an ace and the other guy did too to call. So I pushed his buttons".

[etizzle]

wow i really need to play more live NL


anyone have a ride boston-->fwoods?

[mikech]

first of all, "idiot" will be an understatement, but villain is an IDIOT for going all-in pf for 1,500 BB's (!!!) with QQ. with that out of the way, i don't like hero's flatcall at all. he's already in lp, how often is villain gonna wake up with a hand big enough to reraise here? hero said it himself, "I know he is only RR there with AA, KK or QQ." and very very rarely will villain have one of those, so hero's just gonna let half the table get great implied odds on his massive stack? how i wish i was in the bb with pocket deuces so i could flop a set for 80 bucks and double up on him. plus, he put the utg+1 raiser or ep caller on holding an ace, and he doesn't pump it up right there to make them pay to see a flop? only if hero's holding AA would i not mind his smoothcall.

back to the jawing between hero and villain: villain himself said, hero's announced tactic of reraising big with AK is "total BS"; so why the hell would he believe it?

anyway, both played their hands like crap, but 30k aipf with queens takes the craptacular crown.

[cero_z]

Hi mikech,

[ QUOTE ]
how often is villain gonna wake up with a hand big enough to reraise here? hero said it himself, "I know he is only RR there with AA, KK or QQ."

[/ QUOTE ]

He's not gonna have it often, but Hero sounds like he reads/understands people pretty well. I'll bet he saw that Villain was gonna raise before he himself even acted. Still, it's a ballsy call with KK vs. a guy who doesn't think AK is good enough to raise big with. When I read the post, I felt positive Villain had AA only to move 30K in.

Also, overlimping in LP with AA/KK is not as bad as NEVER overlimping AA/KK in LP, when you're dealing with good players and DEEEEEEEEP stacks. Again, if you read people very well, you can probably still play the hand alright post-flop, and of course you get total disguise from the good players when you flop a set after pulling that move. I agree that Villain's push with QQ is laughably bad, especially after he's announced that such a play will never be AK.

Turns out we were playing at the same 10/25 table at the Borg during the WPT, by the way. I'm sorry I didn't realize it at the time.

[coltrane]

who were the villain and hero?...do you know if they were regulars or out of towners?....

[Percula]

[ QUOTE ]
who were the villain and hero?...do you know if they were regulars or out of towners?....

[/ QUOTE ]

From the banter I take it that the hero was a local. The dealer/floor/wait staff seemed to know him. The villian was a car dealership owner in for a convention. There were several there, sitting on just about every table and spewing chips. Showing off for eachother I think.

I think the hero said his name was Brian, but I am not good with names, so I might be wrong. He was tall >6' medium brown hair, somewhere between 20 and 30 years old, thin.

[Percula]

[ QUOTE ]

Also, overlimping in LP with AA/KK is not as bad as NEVER overlimping AA/KK in LP, when you're dealing with good players and DEEEEEEEEP stacks. Again, if you read people very well, you can probably still play the hand alright post-flop, and of course you get total disguise from the good players when you flop a set after pulling that move. I agree that Villain's push with QQ is laughably bad, especially after he's announced that such a play will never be AK.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes the villian is a freaking moron. In the few hands that I seen him in when the hero was not in, he seemed to be more or less solid. The hero just put him on monkey tilt earlier in the session. I wish I would have seen that hand. I take it the villian viewed it as a bad beat, but that in fact the villian played it baddly and gave the hero odds to outdraw the villians flopped set.

The hero was definately an incredible reader. I seen him make several calls/raises that there is no way he makes without super reads.

I tried the KK overlimp last night in my 5-150 game from MP and it worked great. But I think there has to be a very solid read that someone after you is going to RR and that the player(s) before you are either on a hand you beat or are too weak to follow thru. In my case I had a agro guy that never let a raise go unraised when he was CO or button and two weak/tight nits before me. I stacked the agro player on a all rags board versus his JJ and drove out the winning hand PF.

But I thought this hand was interesting from the meta game stand point and not mathmatical side of the game. You see a lot of players live make moves that you could never make online (well almost never). The hero was playing the villian like a fiddle and I dont think anyone else really seen just how much he had control of the situation. The villian rebought for $10K and when I left a couple of hours later I walked by the table and he had about $1500 left and the hero's stack looked like it was were it all went.