AJo UTG: Debatable on every street

[Knoler]

Well, I really blew chunks playing this hand. The whole way through I felt pretty uncomfortable. The PF 3-bet comes from a TAG through about 30 hands. The other two players are semi-loose PF and tend to call a bit too much post flop.

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: GreatestAmericanHero is UTG with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
<font color="#CC3333">GreatestAmericanHero raises</font>, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, <font color="#666666">5 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB 3-bets</font>, GreatestAmericanHero calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls.

Flop: (12.33 SB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, GreatestAmericanHero calls, UTG+1 folds, MP1 calls.

6 overcard outs -- which are good is a matter of debate. But, I'm getting 13:1, good enough if either my A or J is live. So, I call, but in hindsight, with the crub draw, I think I maybe should have found a fold here.

Turn: (7.66 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, GreatestAmericanHero calls, MP1 calls.

Okay, I hit. Should I raise? I decided that BB might have started out with AA - TT, AK, maybe AQs... I wuss out and just call, though I'm worried about protecting my hand against straight draws...

River: (10.66 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, GreatestAmericanHero checks, MP1 checks.

...like this one. Right now I feel torn about if I should have bet or not, but in the moment, I thought there were just too many ways I could be beat, and I wanted to see a showdown as cheaply as possible.

Final Pot: 10.66 BB

I really think this is one of the lamer hands of poker I've played lately. All help appreciated.

Regards,
-Brian

[einbert]

Heh, I happen to think that most of these streets aren't debatable.

Preflop I guess is, but I always raise and I always call the three-bet.

The flop I think is a clear call. Your outs are dirty, sure, but you're getting 13-1. Even if it gets raised behing you you'll be getting about 8-1 on the total street. I don't see how you can fold here.

The turn you have to raise. There are too many draws available and you can protect your hand against a gutshot. You most likely have the best hand and the pot is large, gotta protect.

The river is an easy bet given everything that happens. Do you really expect a TAG to check an overpair to you on the river? No way. You have the best hand here just about always, you have to bet it.

[CallMeIshmael]

Man this is a tough hand!

I'll give it my best shot... but Im not confident in my advice... but, I'd rather be flamed for bad advice than just sit back and do nothing.


Preflop: automatic.

Flop: automatic FOLD! Though it appears that you knew this.
You are actually not getting the odds to draw to 3 outs (you need 14.7-1). Add to that, that the Ac puts a 3 flush on the board, and the Jc puts a 3 staight and a 3 flush on the board, and those outs arent clean. Also, you arent closing the action, and the coordinated nature of the board makes a raise more likely.

TURN: I think I like a raise, with the intention of taking a free showdown. This line has you putting 2 big bets in, but also allows for protection. If you are 3-bet, then call, and fold the river UI.

RIVER (given that you called the turn): I like the check. TPTK doesnt look that great here. Given that BB could very easily be checking an overpair here (at this limit that is the norm).

But, since you could get called in 2 spots, you only need the best hand 33% of the time (actually more, because sometimes you are only called in one spot, but the number is lower than 50). I think its close, but I like the check.

What was your plan is MP1 bet?

[CallMeIshmael]

Einbert, I really respect your advice, but I have to disagree with:

[ QUOTE ]
Do you really expect a TAG to check an overpair to you on the river? No way.

[/ QUOTE ]

One of the biggest differences between 15/30 (or other games you are currently playing) and 2/4 is that an overpair checks here a lot. Even from a TAG.

[CallMeIshmael]

Bump... because I want more discussion on this one [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[MoreWineII]

Preflop: Standard.

Flop: Close decision, I think. If you decide to continue, what about a raise to clear out the deadwood and pick up some folding equity from the TAG? And to possibly take a free card if you need it.

Turn: Again, I like a raise to try and pick up the pot right here and/or to charge MP1 for whatever draw he appears to be on. This could have free showdown advantages also.

River: Once BB checks, I'm value betting. I might not be good, but I don't think BB is going to check-raise. And there's no reason to think MP1 has you beat..and he seems to like to call.

[QTip]

[ QUOTE ]
Flop: Close decision, I think. If you decide to continue, what about a raise to clear out the deadwood and pick up some folding equity from the TAG? And to possibly take a free card if you need it.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a really nice pot that makes me want to call, but I'm pretty certain I fold here....it does seem close though, I just don't like my relative position and the fact that my outs are dirty.

If I continue, I do raise.

[Rico Suave]

morewine:

[ QUOTE ]
Close decision, I think. If you decide to continue, what about a raise to clear out the deadwood and pick up some folding equity from the TAG? And to possibly take a free card if you need it.


[/ QUOTE ]

Boy, raising sounds good, but I just think you are going to get 3 bet too often, and the 2-tone board makes it more likely the "driftwood" will call. I would rather just "peel" one in this spot than raise.

But...with the preflop BB 3-bet coming from a tag in a multiway pot, the two tone flop, and with 2 players left to act, I lean toward folding, even getting 13:1

If I held the A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], I would probably call.

--Rico

[MoreWineII]

[ QUOTE ]
morewine:

[ QUOTE ]
Close decision, I think. If you decide to continue, what about a raise to clear out the deadwood and pick up some folding equity from the TAG? And to possibly take a free card if you need it.


[/ QUOTE ]

Boy, raising sounds good, but I just think you are going to get 3 bet too often, and the 2-tone board makes it more likely the "driftwood" will call. I would rather just "peel" one in this spot than raise.

But...with the preflop BB 3-bet coming from a tag in a multiway pot, the two tone flop, and with 2 players left to act, I lean toward folding, even getting 13:1

If I held the A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], I would probably call.

--Rico

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd fold the flop too. But I felt like responding to a post and "fold the flop" is boring. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[CallMeIshmael]

To be honest... I look at that flop, and cant imagine continuing given the previous action.

Im glad someone else says fold, and I regain a little confidence.