New to low limit stud.

[Sinnister]

Hello everyone, I have read and reread ss1 stud section, Ashley Adams, and Roy Wests book on 7 stud and am starting to read Stud 4 Advanced by I generally understand the strategy. I am finding it very hard to beat these low limit hames because the players are so bad and loose that I get bluffed out of pots. Here's an example.

1/2 stud .25 ante

I am dealt 2 queens with a tenand a nine raises, I reraise and a King coldcalls. On 4th street I bet and was called by both. At this point I just assumed I was beat and on 5th street the 9 checks I check the king bets the 9 folds and I fold, I show my qq and he shows his 77 and I lose the pot. Should I be going to the river with every premium pair I get against these players? Geez Ive lost at least 2 pots like this plus some suckouts make it very hard. . I guess Roy Wests advice that the players at these limits usually have what they represnt is wrong for online poker. The games on ultimate bet are just so loose at this level.
Any advice would be appreciated.

[greenage]

I’ve played a little Stud/8 on UB, but no 7 Card Stud High. The play is insanely loose there.

Your might like PokerStars better.

[Jeffage]

You definitely need to follow through betting 5th on the hand you mentioned. The king has shown no strength besides calling. Yes, he may have a pair of kings but since he hasn't raised you at any point (particularly 3rd), I would be comfortable putting him on another pair lower than queens. I would follow through 5th and see what he does, then play well after that.

Also, never show your hands unless you have to. You don't want to encourage this opponent to work in extra bets against you in the future. Keep posting and practicing.

Jeff

[PLOlover]

<font class="small">Code:</font><hr /><pre> Any advice would be appreciated. </pre><hr />

If the game is crazy, play tight. Raising queens, unless it's with Ace kicker, is not tight with a King behind you.

[blumpkin22]

[ QUOTE ]
<font class="small">Code:</font><hr /><pre> Any advice would be appreciated. </pre><hr />

If the game is crazy, play tight. Raising queens, unless it's with Ace kicker, is not tight with a King behind you.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not really sure what you are suggesting here. Raise those queens.

[Andy B]

Ol' Roy's been wrong before, although in this case, I think you're misinterpreting what he says. If a low-limit player raises with a King in the door, he is very likely to have Kings. Higher-limit players, good and bad alike, are likely to have a much broader range of hands. That's what Roy means when he says that low-limit players usually have what they're representing.

This guy hasn't represented a damned thing. All he's done is called along, and then taken the initiative when you guys checked. There is no reason to fold--none. In fact, you should have bet your damned hand. The fact that low-limit players call does not mean that you are beaten. If a good player calls you, you should feel a little sick (not enough so to check and fold in this particular case), but you're just not going to encounter many good players in these games. You shouldn't call down every hand, naturally, but when you've got a good starter like a pair of Queens, you should probably be seeing the river more often than not.

If suck-outs bother you, don't play poker. Definitely don't play stud.

The stud section in S/S is very good. I find West and Adams somewhat wanting. 7CS4AP is the nuts. For the game you're playing, pay particular attention to the section on loose games.

[PoorLawyer]

Did he pair his board when you folded? otherwise I think this is a big mistake. Even if he does have kings, you can still outrace him, and there is enought money in the pot to call a bet on 5th to do so.

Saying that, I dont think you can necesarily even put him on kings. He just called you, which is what people do at low limit games. some people will call your raise on third with nothing more than the 7s, as you saw, or even less like AQJ.

[ QUOTE ]
At this point I just assumed I was beat

[/ QUOTE ]

I can understand ways how you could be beat. But, I do not understand why you think you are beat. The other two players are just calling. This could be a hidden monster, but more likely than not it is probably just a worse hand.

I have just started playing low-limit Stud myself, and I've gone a bit of a lucky run. I am grateful for this run, mainly because it has shown me exactly how little many of your opponents will be prepared to call with. I am not saying nobody ever has you beat, but you cannot assume they do when they have done absolutely nothing to make you believe so.

Also, a much larger proportion than you would expect seem to ignore your board unless it is paired or 4-to-X for some reason. When you are betting your Queens here, they will often call you without a hand that beats them. In fact, often they may be a significant underdog.

The guy could be slow-playing some Kings, giving you the opportunity to outdraw... if he is, that's his prerogative. He could be rolled up and trying to price you into the pot for the expensive streets - but, don't be scared of monsters in the dark. There are two ways to think of an opponent's hand that are incorrect: 1) what can he have that beats me? 2) what can he have that I beat? Many players, including myself, often pick one on a whim or by pure inspiration on that hand. You need to analyse what he is likely to have, not what he is likely to have that beats you or you beat.

As stated by much better players, his line would not indicate split Kings. If he had had split Kings, more power to him.

Of course, I could be plain wrong. I am relative Stud new guy and have only read Chip Reese's advice. (I promise 7CSFAP is on it's way.) I don't have many table hours, either. But, that's how I see it.

Also, 1st post!

[count1]

Good post dmks, welcome to the forum.

[Sinnister]

Thx for the reply guys. Ive been playing Hold'em for sometime so in response to the guy asking hwy i thought I was beat is because my reads in holdem are reasonably good, the instict just went off. This game is so loose I just need to learn stud a litle better before i can know whats what. Thx again for responses