PLO basics.. flopping a set

[Saucy]

Bear with me, I am crap at pot limit omaha.

Question.. do you actually want to flop a set?
There aren't many boards that don't offer some sort of draw against you, and you end up simply praying for the board to pair.
I guess the ideal is a set, with a back-up draw - but it seems to me you can play for hours on end without hitting one of those beautiful situations.

I think the problem for me with PLO, is I am not terribly comfortable with the money all going in on the flop and sometimes the draw hits and sometimes it doesn't and you hope for the best.

[punkass]

Sets are over-rated, and over played most of the time. They really go down in value in Omaha hi/lo. And if you do have a set, make sure you have the top set. Mid-low sets are not a good hand.
I am not going to pretend I know everything in omaha, so I'd like to hear more advice, but I treat sets as a drawing hand, unless the board is uncoordinated, or the field is low, say 3-handed or headsup. And yes, it is always nice to have a draw with it.
If you do have mid or low set, you pretty much don't want the board to pair, and you don't want any draws to come. So in the rare case where there is truly a blank on the river, and nothing is likely there, that is your best case scenario.
But then again, I could be totally wrong. [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

[Phat Mack]

I guess the ideal is a set, with a back-up draw - but it seems to me you can play for hours on end without hitting one of those beautiful situations.

Actually, you can go weeks or months with out hitting one of these. But you are correct, these are what you want. Dry sets are OK if you are in a game where you can bet on the flop and take it down, but there are few games like that. Otherwise, sets can be trap hands in PLO. If all the money is going in on the flop and you have multiple callers with straight wraps and flush draws, you can be in big trouble.

[Greg (FossilMan)]

IMO, the way to make the most money in a PLO game is to be willing to put all your money in the pot when you are a reasonable favorite. So, whether it's the size of your draw, the top set plus blockers, or whatever hand that you rate to put you ahead of the opposition, as long as you are a reasonable money favorite (e.g., 60-40 is plenty big, 55-45 should probably do, or, if 3-handed, as long as you've got at least close to 40% equity out of 3), you should be willing to put it all in the middle.

If you have to flop or turn the nuts to put it all in, you shouldn't get paid off very long in a game with semi-decent players. You should be willing to risk your whole stack as long as you confidently read yourself to have the edge.

Later, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)

[Fat Kid]

I am of the firm belief that sets are some of the most valuable hands in PLO. Opponents are more frequently confused by sets than other hands, and they are a fantastic holding against two pair. Having said that, sets are very difficult to play properly in PLO. You MUST be able to calculate outs, both for you and your opponent, and when you have the best of it you MUST offer poor pot odds to your opponent.

[Guy McSucker]

It's hard for any one hand to be a favourite over top set on the flop, assuming of course there's no straight or flush already available. It takes 18 outs to be favourite, and such hands are really rare.

Against more than one player you are a money favourite almost always, I think, although there can easily be > 20 outs against you.

So, committing all your money with top set wins in the long run I think. The goal is to do better than this dumb strategy.

How you play depends on the texture of the flop and the stack sizes. E.g. with a flop of Q72 rainbow, holding trip Qs, you try to get all the money in on the flop and turn - you have two betting rounds to do it since there's no straight or flush draw out.

With a flop that offers a flush draw, but no big wraps, try to get most of your money in on the flop since you'll lose your customers if the board pairs on fourth street. Against any action you can fold if the flush comes.

With a scary flop like 7JQ with two of a suit, I am inclined not to bet the top set. I'd prefer to see a small card or a board pair first. This is arguably weak, but the situation is so volatile that I prefer to play safe.

Middle and bottom set: same comments apply - it's hard to flop better than a set - but you can be dead in the water to a larger set so err on the side of folding. It helps to avoid playing hands that can flop middle or bottom set.

Guy.