Qc Jc in big blind

[T Captain]

Paradise Poker $30 single table NL Limit Tournament

In the third hand of the tournament I’m in the BB with Qc Jc It’s folded around to #8 seat who raises to $80. SB calls, I call.

Flop Qh Kc 9c I check, Raiser makes it $150 SB folds, I call.

Turn Jh I check, Raiser makes it $400 I push all-in $270 more. Raiser calls and shows Qd ,Td

River 9d

Preflop: I think Raiser has a good pocket pair, AK, AQ. My call was an attempt to trap on a good flop but I can see now I was a dog to most flops. A raise would be a mistake a fold probably correct. If the blinds were higher and we were 4 or 5 way I definitely would have raised.

Flop: I was thinking like a limit player. I thought clubs, queens, tens and jacks were outs. The check was horrible. A raise or check-fold should have been my only options.

Turn: I really liked this card but a check-raise was wrong. Better $400 raise and fold to an all-in. I could still come back with $270 and the blinds being so small.

I would love some comments.

[obex]

I generally think it's a bad idea to play hands like QJs on the third hand of the tournament from any position. Drawing hands do not play well with no-limit. It's a pretty loose call you made, especially without position.
The flop did not hit you. AQ, any K, JT, all dominate you. You have mid-pair, a 2nd best flush draw (that you're not getting odds for with his $150 bet), and a gutshot straight draw that is counterfeited by any J. If you're determined to play here you have to bet the flop as a semibluff.
The turn card is not good for you. Any T has a straight. His betting into you $400 makes one think he has more that top pair - either a better two pair than you, or a straight.

This is an easy fold for me preflop. Drawing hands, especially this early are usually trouble. Chasing hands in no limit is usually trouble.

[alieneyes]

[ QUOTE ]

Preflop: I think Raiser has a good pocket pair, AK, AQ.

[/ QUOTE ]

There is no reason to put an late position open raiser on a hand this good. I think the call isn't too bad, given you are getting decent odds since the SB is in - you have to be warying of flopping top pair however.

Flop - check is not absolutely horrible, but I'd be more likely bet out, possibly with the best hand, and with a lot of outs if called.

Turn - just calling is not a good play, if he's been pushing all along, what makes you think he won't go all in on the river? I might have just pushed right away here if I didn't believe he had ten.

[gergery]

I think the call is ok if you want to mix it up, but you can make a good argument for folding. Late position in unraised pot doesn't have to have aK, could have AT or 88 a lot of time.

Flop hit you well, but with danger. The plus is any club gives you a flush, any Q gives trips, any T is straight for 14 outs for likely the best hand. You would be not far behind even AK or AA here, maybe 40-45% chance to win. Odds that someone has Ax or Kx are slim given you have two clubs and they wouldn't raise with weaker versions of that, like K5. I'd worry most you were up against a JTs, KK, AK, AQ, KQ, 99, or someone with part of a draw like he had.

You must bet on the flop. If you are playing QJs and not going to continue with this hand, then there is no way you should play it to begin with. You have 2nd pair, flush draw, and gutshot -- just how much better does the flop have to be to continue?

Since he bet 150 into a 240 pot, I would think a little bit of weakness (maybe a piece of the flop like A9 or perhaps a TT), and raise him back to maybe 400. Anyone who caught alot of this is also worried about straights and flushes and would bet harder. Even the nuts here (JT) won't want to let a club draw in cheap. If he reraises you then it's decision time -- you are beat but have maybe ~40% chance to win the pot. Or, You could just call since you're getting 2.6:1 on your money (150 for 400) and your odds of improving are 2:1 (but not because you want to slowplay this - thats suicide). But calling is weak poker.

But once you call and get to the turn, you gotta fold to a big raise. A ten is just too likely.

--Greg

[patrick dicaprio]

QcJc is the kind of hand that people post here with comments like "was it a bad beat."when you get to be fairly proficient you can believe that you can routinely play this hand but the fact is that you should have folded it preflop to a raise. you do not have a good situation to play a draw since you are OOP and you dont have a chip advantage.

as you say preflop your thought was a good pocket pair or AK or AQ. so why did you call? many players, myself included sometimes, will make a play without thinking at the table and then after the fact justify it or put the player on a hand after the damage is done. sounds like what happened here. to get myself out of this trap i just always take a few seconds to size up the situation before i call in a situation like you describe.

Pat