Toyota: "No Financial Justification in US for Buying Hybrids"

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part of that enjoyment being the knowledge that she is being socially responsible

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Actually, Ed's wrong here. I didn't buy it because I get enjoyment from it's "social responsibility." I listed my reasons above. I think it's a cool car, the technology is cool, it looks cool, it's fun to drive and it was a great purchase - great because it's actualy gone up in value and because it saves me gas money.

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If hybrid cars will help ensure the US can satify it's needs with shale oil. Hybrid cars in 2012 will most likely be far more damaging to the environment than a muscle car in the 60's.

If she wants to be socially responsible she should be asking her congressman why ITER has been on the shelf for 25 years. There are plenty of other things she can do. I've typed this stuff out a million times so I've lost all will to do it again.

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You're doing the same thing Beer and Pizza did earlier - if I choose to fight one environmental battle, I must fight them all, otherwise I'm a hypocrite.

You go ahead and lobby your congressperson. I'm going to keep driving my hybrid and show that there is a market for creative energy vehicles & low emissions vehicles like electric vehicles, hybrids, hydrogen, corn oil...whatever...

[wacki]

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You're doing the same thing Beer and Pizza did earlier - if I choose to fight one environmental battle, I must fight them all, otherwise I'm a hypocrite.


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Why would you say this? There are plenty of environmental battles I choose not to fight. And to be honest, you don't have to be an environmentalist to be concerned about energy. For instance, I tend to only really argue environmental battles where our actions are significantly reducing our quality of life. Long term effects or C02, shale oil, and high energy prices is just one example. Also, even an environmentalist can choose to simply get rid of the worst case scenerios. No need to be a fanatic.

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You go ahead and lobby your congressperson. I'm going to keep driving my hybrid and show that there is a market for creative energy vehicles & low emissions vehicles like electric vehicles, hybrids, hydrogen, corn oil...whatever...


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That is the only reason I support people buying hybrids right now. You need to realize that hybrids simply allow us to sweep a problem under the rug. Sweeping problems under the rug tends to bite us in the rear later on.

http://cohesion.rice.edu/NaturalScie...S%20Boston.pdf
http://smalley.rice.edu/

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You need to realize that hybrids simply allow us to sweep a problem under the rug. Sweeping problems under the rug tends to bite us in the rear later on.


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You need to realize that people have many motivations for buying hybrids, not just reducing our oil consumption and promoting the use of other energy resources.

If you read the forums at http://www.insightcentral.com/ you'll realize some people buy my car to modify into a race care, since it's one of the most (affordable) aerodynamic cars on the market. People have even taken the Insight and turned it into a rally racer with roll bars. Some people put chrome on their Insights. Some people just plain like messing with the electronics and adding an auto-stop switch. Take a look at the Insight and you'll see the car is about MUCH MORE THAN REDUCING OIL CONSUMPTION.

It's a cool, little car that has ultra low emissions and reminds me of high school. I could have gotten a Vespa if I really want to reduce my oil consumption but I thought the Insight was a better choice for me.

The whole point of the OP was that in the US, because gas prices are still fairly low, people who buy hybrids have motives other than financial ones. What is SO hard to comprehend about that?

Wacki, if you want to talk about other energy sources, why not start a thread about that instead of attacking me for my personal choice in cars.

And, sorry to be so ad hominem, but, what do you drive?

[wacki]

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The whole point of the OP was that in the US, because gas prices are still fairly low, people who buy hybrids have motives other than financial ones. What is SO hard to comprehend about that?

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I think we are having extreme communication problems.

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Wacki, if you want to talk about other energy sources, why not start a thread about that instead of attacking me for my personal choice in cars.

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1) I never attacked your choice in car.
2) In my first post I quoted this:

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part of that enjoyment being the knowledge that she is being socially responsible

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That is what I was attacking. I'm simply pointing out that hybrids will cause more damage than gas guzzling muscle cars thanks to shale oil. And if everyone switches to hybrids we are far less likely to allocate money into alternative research and far more likely to use more and more shale oil. You need to be aware of that. The process is already happening as research into good technologies is being passed over for technologies that will most likely profit the oil companies.

If your motives are to be socially responsible then you need to read up on the current energy/global warming situation more.

I don't car if you drive a Hummer to work. It's your choice. I'm just correcting a thought process. That being said I'm glad you bought a hybrid because it does send a message to our congressmen, even if it's misplaced.

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Wacki, if you want to talk about other energy sources, why not start a thread about that instead of attacking me for my personal choice in cars.

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Feel free to search the archives. Zeno, nicky g, many others and I have covered this in extreme depth. You can watch the video or read the pdf from smalleys website which is an excellent primer.

http://cohesion.rice.edu/NaturalScie...S%20Boston.pdf
http://smalley.rice.edu/

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part of that enjoyment being the knowledge that she is being socially responsible

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That is what I was attacking. I'm simply pointing out that hybrids will cause more damage than gas guzzling muscle cars thanks to shale oil. And if everyone switches to hybrids we are far less likely to allocate money into alternative research and far more likely to use more and more shale oil. You need to be aware of that. The process is already happening as research into good technologies is being passed over for technologies that will most likely profit the oil companies.

If your motives are to be socially responsible then you need to read up on the current energy/global warming situation more.

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Yes, we are having serious communication problems because I just pointed out in my last post that
1. I do not get enjoyment from the "social responsibility" of my car
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2. I don't consider my car to be socially responsible.

I think socally responsible transportation is mass transit, bicycles, walking.

If anything, my car eases some of my guilt from my ingrained American consumerism, but it's hybrid status certainly doesn't bring me any enjoyment on it's own. The enjoyment I get from my car is how cool it looks, how fun it is to drive, the attention I get...

Second, please don't insult me by telling me you are "correctinng my thought process" when you obviously do not even understand my thought process.

Third, the world is not going to change overnight. Everyone is not going to go out and buy hybrids. That's simply not a possibility.

You're making that same silly argument that some zealous carnivores make about "what if everyone suddenly became vegetarian? Then we'd have a huge problem of too many cows and all their methane and all their grazing causing erosion.. blah blah blah..." It's not a good argument because it ain't going to happen.

Public opinion does not change quickly and drastically.

Hybrids are easing the American people into electric vehicles. Is that a bad thing?

No, hybrids are not a permanent solution. Who is arguing that they are?

[wacki]

You:

Second, please don't insult me by telling me you are "correctinng my thought process" when you obviously do not even understand my thought process.


me

I'm just correcting a thought process.

Did i say it was "your" thought process? I quoted ed miller. Even if I did correct your thought process, I don't see how it would be an insult. People make mistakes all the time. I can't expect you to know everything. I sure don't.


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Third, the world is not going to change overnight. Everyone is not going to go out and buy hybrids. That's simply not a possibility.

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Even if they did I wouldn't care. That's not really relevant to my arguement. My arguement is that people who claim they are socially responsible because they have a hybrid are misleading themselves.

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You're making that same silly argument that some zealous carnivores make about "what if everyone suddenly became vegetarian? Then we'd have a huge problem of too many cows and all their methane and all their grazing causing erosion.. blah blah blah..." It's not a good argument because it ain't going to happen.

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[img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] Not going to touch this one.

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I think socally responsible transportation is mass transit, bicycles, walking.

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Good for you. However, I am not that extreme. I prefer the cheap and clean energy route. That way our lifestyles won't change, people can still drive SUV's, Florida will be less likely to end up under the sea, and Europe will be less likely to freeze over.

http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn8398

Of course none of this will happen unless smalley's program get's put in gear. A program which has many opponents despite it's rather cheap cost.

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Hybrids are easing the American people into electric vehicles. Is that a bad thing?

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Did I say hybrids are bad? No. Again, I said people who claim they are socially responsible because they have a hybrid need to have their thought process corrected. This may or may not include you.

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My arguement is that people who claim they are socially responsible because they have a hybrid are misleading themselves.

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Your argument has nothing to do with the original post.

Why don't you start your own thread about what you want to talk about? And maybe you could lay out your points in detail and clarify your ideas rather than attack people.