Semi-bluffing two donk opponents...

[JinX11]

I think I found a pretty good hand for posting in SS, finally - been a while....

Villians here are both donkish...maybe so is Hero! BB (47 / 14 / 1.2) has been calling down often with bad hands, Button (42 / 11 / 1.9) has been able to find more folds and is a touch over-aggressive given the number of hands he plays.

Hero felt really good about the play when he made it...putting BB on his typical draw chase and putting Button to the test with a nice scare card, hoping to fold him out.


Do most of you semi-bluff here?


Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. CO posts a blind of $2.
<font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button 3-bets</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, BB calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (10.50 SB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets</font>, BB calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (6.75 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets</font>, BB calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>...

[JinX11]

Early returns are not so good....can anyone set me straight on why this is a bad play?

[img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

[jason_t]

[ QUOTE ]
Early returns are not so good....can anyone set me straight on why this is a bad play?

[img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Texture of the Party 2/4 makes this a bad play.

[JinX11]

[ QUOTE ]

Texture of the Party 2/4 makes this a bad play.

[/ QUOTE ]

And by this, do you mean that at 2/4, I am not going to fold Button nearly enough to make it worthwhile or....?

Thanks for the reply, j.

[Jake (The Snake)]

You just about never fold either of these guys. All your doing is adding value to their hands IMO.

[JinX11]

How close is it, in your opinion?

Suppose, the turn is Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]....

[thirddan]

i don't like it...

the value of a semi-bluff comes from the fact that you have two ways to win

1. villains fold right now
2. villains call but you suckout [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

in your example there is almost no chance of part 1 occurring, especially since you are not facing anyone with two bets cold, trying this against two opponents is much different than 1, especially on a coordinated board that button seems to like...in your read you also say BB calls down with weak hands so that makes part 1 less likely to happen also...so since part 1 will rarely ever happen you are raising solely based on the power of your draw, which is nice, but isn't for value...this stuff is covered in TOP as well...

[JinX11]

So, really, a better question is whether to find a flop fold, I guess....

Thanks for the feedback.

[Jake (The Snake)]

You defenetely can't fold the flop.

4 straight outs, 1.5 for BD flush, maybe 3-4ish for overs... you easily have odds to continue.

[shant]

[ QUOTE ]
So, really, a better question is whether to find a flop fold, I guess....

[/ QUOTE ]
Why would you fold the flop? Three of your pair outs may be dominated, but you have the backdoor flush, and the gutshot draw.