Preflop bluff turns into money by the river

ZootMurph · #1 11-16-2005, 03:06 PM

MP2 is a LAG preflop(47%/31%), but very rarely shows down hands, either folding after the turn with nothing or jamming the pot. Button is a classic calling station. NEVER raises, just calls. He only bets with a big hand when checked to, otherwise you can be sure he will call with something and fold with nothing. My image has to be weak tight at this point, as I've been getting absolutely nothing for the last hour, and I've tried to play a couple of weak hands in position and had to fold most of the time postflop. The last hand I showed down was AA vs K9s that rivered the flush and didn't even bet the river OOP.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: ZootMurph is MP3 with 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
3 folds, MP2 raises, ZootMurph 3-bets, 1 fold, Button calls, 2 folds, MP2 calls.

Preflop, I'm basically trying to get heads up against the LAG, and hoping he doesn't hit his hand so I can push him off. Unfortunately, button comes along for the ride. 

Flop: (10.50 SB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
MP2 checks, ZootMurph bets, Button calls, MP2 folds.

Obviously, I don't like this flop but I decide to follow my initial plan and see what happens. So I bet and, as expected, LAG folds. Unfortunately, Button has something and calls. I tell myself I'm done with the hand. 

Turn: (6.25 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
ZootMurph bets, Button calls.

OK, I now have a OESD. If I don't bet, Button will. And I will call. So, I decide betting is better than check/calling. 

River: (8.25 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
ZootMurph bets, Button calls.

What a beautiful runner runner straight. Lucky me. I bet, mainly because I'm not 100% sure of the bet from Button to check raise, with the flush draw coming through on the river.

Final Pot: 10.25 BB

Any thoughts on this play?

Entity · #2 11-16-2005, 03:08 PM

With your description of Button, preflop is pretty horrible here.

Rob

BWebb · #3 11-16-2005, 03:14 PM

[ QUOTE ]
With your description of Button, preflop is pretty horrible here.

Rob

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed. Additionally, you have to have very tight blinds for this play to be worth attempting. Wait for better situations, don't get bored.

gopnik · #4 11-16-2005, 03:22 PM

since you have pretty much no folding equity against the button I prefer to check the turn and hope he checks it behind.

You need to bet for value against these people otherwise it's spewing.

ZootMurph · #5 11-16-2005, 03:23 PM

My bad for not giving a full description. I only gave what I thought was necessary. His stats are 11%-0%. I don't see him as a rock, since he folds a lot. But when he has a hand he is going to the river and not raising so you can never tell exactly what he has, only that he has something. I haven't seen him play draws either, so I knew the flush was not reasonable for him.

I didn't have anything on SB since this was his 2nd hand at the table. BB is a multitabling TAG.

In any case, most of the loose coldcalls at the table were from people already out of the hand. So I really wasn't concerned about any calls from anyone that didn't have a real good hand. With 4 people left to play behind me, I felt there was very little chance there would be further action.

Now, if you were to say the FLOP action was bad, I would tend to agree.

ZootMurph · #6 11-16-2005, 03:28 PM

As for the spewing/getting bored posts... am I the only one who varies their play? I don't play ABC poker all the time, otherwise it is too easy to play against me.

I make plays like this ocassionally when I have a read on someone that I can use against them. Plays outside the generic plays.

Again, I'm just curious... is there anyone out there besides me who isn't an automaton?

Walker · #7 11-16-2005, 03:33 PM

I don't think middle suited connectors are the type of hand you want to isolate a LAG with. You need hands with high card strength and showdown value (UI).

Entity · #8 11-16-2005, 03:34 PM

[ QUOTE ]
As for the spewing/getting bored posts... am I the only one who varies their play? I don't play ABC poker all the time, otherwise it is too easy to play against me.

I make plays like this ocassionally when I have a read on someone that I can use against them. Plays outside the generic plays.

Again, I'm just curious... is there anyone out there besides me who isn't an automaton?

[/ QUOTE ]

What the hell did you want from posting this hand? It wasn't advice because you've ignored it.

You're going to have a holy parlay necessary when you 3-bet a hand like 7-high preflop:

1) Button and Blinds cannot pick up a hand.
2) Maniac must not have a good hand.
3) Maniac must not hit a hand on the flop or have any reasonable spectre of a draw to continue with postflop.

If you had posted a blind in the CO, I think the choice would be a bit closer and I wouldn't hate the 3-bet there, as it's an interesting situation. But here, you have nothing invested and consequently have to turn 7-high into a +EV hand when 3-betting against an aggressive player.

If Button was an 11% VPIP'er (note that in your original damned post) then that changes things but not enough to make this play decent; at that point, it's only marginally retarded.

Pick a better damned spot and stop being condescending to those who tried to provide advice, especially those who are willing to try new things and play differently than standard ABC poker, who still manage to hate your play on every street besides the river.

Rob

olavfo · #9 11-16-2005, 03:37 PM

I don't get your preflop action at all.

OK, so MP2 can be pushed off hands when he doesn't connect with the flop, but you have a calling station behind you, and your hand is 7 high. Do you think you can bluff them both postflop?

If you did it because you were bored, OK, but this is not a +EV strategy.

flopmonster · #10 11-16-2005, 03:47 PM

[ QUOTE ]
As for the spewing/getting bored posts... am I the only one who varies their play? I don't play ABC poker all the time, otherwise it is too easy to play against me.

I make plays like this ocassionally when I have a read on someone that I can use against them. Plays outside the generic plays.

Again, I'm just curious... is there anyone out there besides me who isn't an automaton?

[/ QUOTE ]

At 2/4 no1 is paying any attention to what the hell you are doing. I think this just sets yourself up for situations where people will play strangely against you and I like solid reads not whacky stuff to go by. I think its good that you posted this hand and you really should learn something from this thread.