($55) Awkward spot with JJ preflop

[curtains]

I almost never flat call in spots like this, but this might be an exception. Wuoldnt yell at you for folding or moving allin. Hey why dont you just do the math for allin, it cant be that complicated. Put him on a range (calculate chances of people behind you having AA-QQ also), and figure it out [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] Meanwhile Ill sit here and learn from your results.

[bones]

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I almost never flat call in spots like this, but this might be an exception. Wuoldnt yell at you for folding or moving allin. Hey why dont you just do the math for allin, it cant be that complicated. Put him on a range (calculate chances of people behind you having AA-QQ also), and figure it out [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] Meanwhile Ill sit here and learn from your results.

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Somehow us disagreeing on a line doesn't surprise me.

[curtains]

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I almost never flat call in spots like this, but this might be an exception. Wuoldnt yell at you for folding or moving allin. Hey why dont you just do the math for allin, it cant be that complicated. Put him on a range (calculate chances of people behind you having AA-QQ also), and figure it out [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] Meanwhile Ill sit here and learn from your results.

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Somehow us disagreeing on a line doesn't surprise me.

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Honestly I don't know the answer....thats why I want ilya to do the math based on certain UTG ranges. It should be relatively simple if he cares about the right play and makes a few assumptions. I think its a pretty important spot to know exactly what to do. Just saying to move allin is too lazy of me to accept without donig any math.

[tigerite]

I can do that. Well, I'll try to anyway, only via ICM not chipEV.

[tigerite]

Right if he calls every time you need a 55.9% winrate which means he's raising 77+,AJo+,ATs+. Straight off the bat this seems more than reasonable anyway. In fact that's even wanting a ridiculously big edge.

[curtains]

But ok hes not calling every time? Lets assume he calls only with AK stuff and AA-QQ, just out of curiosity....If thats +EV we dont need to move on. Lets also assume a range of 99-AA and AJ+

[ilya]

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Hey why dont you just do the math for allin, it cant be that complicated. Put him on a range (calculate chances of people behind you having AA-QQ also), and figure it out [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] Meanwhile Ill sit here and learn from your results.

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I did, although my ranges may have been too conservative. It's in one of my earlier posts in this thread. 88+, AQ+ raising, TT+, AK calling --> pushing yields a net loss of about 30 chips, not accounting for the 8% or so chance that someone behind has picked up QQ+.

[Roman]

I would make it 300 and shove any flop. This is KJ and crap like that more often than AA-QQ. I let him make a mistake pf here.