how wrong am i here?

[PokerBob]

UTG is unknown. button is 41/0 on 50 hands.

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (6 max, 4 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is SB with 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
<font color="#CC3333">UTG raises</font>, Button calls, hero folds

[POKhER]

I'd fold if he hadn't raised once, 3:1 or so. Its fine.

[Spicymoose]

At 3/6 you are getting 19:5 if the BB comes along, and 16:5 if he doesn't. That means you are getting roughly 3.5:1. You would need to make up 4 * 2/3 SB postflop, or 1.33 BB. Considering you win this UI a significant portion of the time, I think you can call. Having the potentially retarded button helps a lot too (even though our read on him isn't solid yet).

I don't think you are giving up all that much folding, but I do think it is profitable to call. If UTG was a known tight raiser, I think this would be much closer.

Edit: Just realize UTG was also CO. Easy call now. Very easy.

Edit2: You are in the worst of situations in terms of blind structures, so if this game were 5/10, or had SB post half of BB, it would be an even easier call because of bigger implied odds.

[scotty34]

To be honest, I really don't mind it, which is weird. A cold-call is pretty bad, as you aren't going to like many flops without a 7. If Button is as passive postflop as he is preflop, he will be calling down any pair, and you will have no idea if he is doing that or just hoping to hit some obscure draw. Your position is pretty bad in terms of being able to manipulate the betting to your liking.

A raise is pretty bad too. You would be bloating the pot, give UTG the opportunity to cap, and Button certainly isn't going anywhere. I tend to give a decent amount of respect to an unknown UTG raise, so I would say two overs at best, or you are completely crushed.

Unless you hit your set, or the board comes AK9 or something, you are going to be in a tough position postflop. You could end up paying a lot of bets with a second best hand (or third best). I would fold 55 here no question, and thinking about it in this light, probably 66 and 77 as well.

[MicroBob]

"I tend to give a decent amount of respect to an unknown UTG raise"


It's not really an 'UTG raise'.
This is 4-handed.


Am I an idiot for thinking about cold-calling here?

I don't think all non-7 flops are terrible.
If if comes with just 1 over-card I'm still feeling pretty good (regardless of whether BB comes along or not I think).
J42, Q65, whatever.

[DCWildcat]

Are you sure those stats are all 4-handed? I've never ever seen a 4 handed 41/0

[Redd]

I don't really understand - even if we open fold on 2 3 6 flops everytime, aren't we getting implied odds on hitting our set?

[scotty34]

Oh, I didn't notice that it was 4-handed. That certainly opens up UTG's range quite a bit.

I am going to think about this a little more. Maybe run some numbers on how often you get two undercards on the flop. A flop such as J82 probably isn't terrible either.

[MicroBob]

[ QUOTE ]
Are you sure those stats are all 4-handed? I've never ever seen a 4 handed 41/0

[/ QUOTE ]


I have. I've even seen this heads-up (more than once).
I'm always raising or folding PF. He's always completing the SB, calling my raise, or folding.
I always raise...and he never does.

I've also seen 80/0 in 3-handed (more than once) and 95/3 6-handed.

It happens.

But this also goes back to my continuing desire for p-tracker and/or GT+ to have a way to set things up where you are ONLY looking at their 6-handed stats or their 3-handed stats or whatever you prefer.
It wouldn't be too difficult imo.
Some players I have enough heads-up and 3-way hands against to really screw-up their stats when I'm trying to look at their 6-max tendencies.

[krishanleong]

3/1.

Meh, either way is not a big mistake.

Krishan