Getting away from hands

Gomez22 · #1 07-23-2005, 03:08 PM

I thought the MTT I signed up for was NL, but of course, I read it wrong and it was a limit MTT. I don't have any problems with this, as I am a better limit ring player than NL, but this is a situation that I don't know if anyone would be able to get away from here.

PokerStars Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind t4000 (8 handed) pokerhand.org hand converter

Hero (t45470)
SB (t49586)
BB (t63720)
UTG (t73428)
UTG+1 (t48710)
MP1 (t47819)
MP2 (t20304)
CO (t44212)

Preflop: Hero is Button with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG calls, 4 folds, Hero raises, SB calls, BB calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (8 SB, t32000) A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, BB bets, UTG folds, Hero calls, SB calls.

Turn: (5.50 BB, t44000) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, BB bets, Hero raises, SB folds, BB 3-bets, Hero caps, BB calls.

River: (13.50 BB, t108000) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB bets, Hero calls t1470 (All-In).

Final Pot: 14.68375 BB (t117470)

It wasn't until BB 3-bet the turn that I began to consider him having AQ (actually, I really discounted this due to the fact that I would have thought him to 3-bet a hand like AQo PF), 99, or 44. At the point where he 3-bets, my original thought process was twofold:

1. Even IF I call his 3-bet and call the river (cause there's no way I can lay this down at the time) I'm going to only have 1470 chips left.

2. I'm playing to win (at minimum a top-3 finish), and at this point, I feel like I have to put my whole stack in given pot odds and the fact that the remainder of my stack is going to be useless if I fold at any point.

Any comments here? Would anyone else prefer to get to a SD cheaply with this hand given the circumstances?

PS - This was my 2nd MTT in a row where I made the final 2 tables, the other being a PLO MTT, where runner-runner boat beat my flopped mid-set. Is it just me, or is it usually the case that when you get deep into a MTT (final 3-tables or so) that your exit is either a beat or outdraw?

Thanks for any advice,

'Mez

JC_Saves · #2 07-23-2005, 03:17 PM

1. I don't think that I would have raised this PF, but that is just me. I would limp with A9s and try and see a cheap flop.

2. I think you need to raise on the flop here. If you were called you could surmise he had at least an A and maybe even a set.

3. I think that a call on the turn is in order given that you were PF aggressor and your opponent has bet into you twice now. Plus you have the SB acting behind you that has come along for the ride for some reason. Raising in this situation is unwarranted and opens you up to a reraise. You lost two more big bets because of this play.

I think it would have been wiser to check/call down to the river with this hand.

Gomez22 · #3 07-23-2005, 03:25 PM

[ QUOTE ]
3. I think that a call on the turn is in order given that you were PF aggressor and your opponent has bet into you twice now. Plus you have the SB acting behind you that has come along for the ride for some reason. Raising in this situation is unwarranted and opens you up to a reraise. You lost two more big bets because of this play.

[/ QUOTE ]

Would this be typical for MTT play? I know it varies greatly from ring, and have picked up some of the easier nuances of the style, but this obviously must be something I need to address. In a ring game, this is an easy flat-call the flop, raise the turn situation, but after reading your comments, it becomes apparent that it is not in MTTs based on what you said.

I guess what I'm trying to say..... Is there a difference to value betting/raising in ring and MTTs, and if so, what are they, exactly?

USDaniels · #4 07-23-2005, 05:40 PM

Top two is hard to get away from, but I think you have to raise that flop. He bet out, so it could be anything from TP to a set, you have no idea. The flop raise will get you information earlier and give you a chance to eject if you think you are behind. With the blinds that large, it doesn't make sense to wait until the turn to move without a monster (IMO).

kingele · #5 07-23-2005, 06:00 PM

These guys are advocating that you play weak tight. If he's betting into your flopped top two, of COURSE you wait until the turn to raise with no conceivable draw on the flop, especially since this is limit holdem and the turn is the bigger bet. BBs defend their big blind with a lot of hands, Ace-rag being one of many. Even if he had a better ace, you have him destroyed and you can't start seeing monsters under the bed at this point in the tournament with your stack so heavily invested already. If he has a set or AQ, tough luck, but I'm going broke every single time here and playing it like you did.

BTW your raise preflop is fine. Way better than limping.

DDC67 · #6 07-23-2005, 06:14 PM

I like the raise preflop as well. I would have raised the flop to try and take it down at this point or help narrow down the possible hands villian may be on. As someone else stated, I would get my $$$ in at this point because of being pot committed.

USDaniels · #7 07-23-2005, 08:21 PM

[ QUOTE ]
These guys are advocating that you play weak tight.

[/ QUOTE ]

Perhaps, but late in a tournament situation, I don't think making villian pay for a draw is weak (in a ring game, trapping might be right, in this situation I'm not so sure). I agree that this is probably a "go broke" hand regardless, but since that's the case, there is no sense not building your fold equity along the way. Make villian start seeing monsters under the bed.

Also, the name of the thread is "Getting away from hands." If the OP is at all concerned about "getting away" with any chance to move up a place or two before busting out, then he has to raise the flop to have any chance to eject. I guess that's weak, but the real $'s have their lure as well.