Expert Play according to the Table Coach - Page 4

bottomset · #31 12-01-2005, 09:06 PM

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So if you were planning on folding the turn UI, why call the flop with 3 outs? Whatever he bet with OOP on the flop he'll probably continue with on the turn, winning or otherwise. If you folded UI here you just would have spent an extra SB before folding the best hand.

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my experience with superweaktight players is that they give up, and switch to check/call/pray mode unless they are superstrong

so that 1SB often buys 2cards, and 8.5/1 with some possibility of being ahead seems like a decent price

Obviously my read was off on this specific hand, and subsequently changed to reflect the newfound info, since WT players don't play 65s, let alone 3bet the turn with bottompair/fd

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Even under ideal conditions, limping 98s UTG is marginal. I think you underestimate the value of position with these hands. It's very hard to minimize a positional disadvantage against multiple loose passive players.

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I didn't say it was a slamdunk you need to play this hand, I know you weren't specifically talking to me, but I will defend the limp a little, if its a mistake to limp its a tiny one, I'd estimate if I misjudge the table, I'll get around .45BB back on my .5BB investment, a 0.05BB misstep, which is minimal. Most preflop errors are small in magnitude(hence the don't focus on it too much attitude) where you get in trouble is small errors that you have the opportunity to make very often. So if I limp JTs-98s UTG(10handed) everytime, I get one of those 3hands 1/110, and get one UTG 1/1110 so even if I lose .25BB everytime I limp, its still miniscule overall. I'm comfortable with my postflop play, and look to play hands that have big pot potential whenever I can, these medium suited connectors are those types of hands.

bottomset · #32 12-03-2005, 12:48 AM

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (8 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: bottomset is Button with 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, 1 fold, MP2 calls, 1 fold, bottomset calls, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (5 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG+1 checks, MP2 checks, bottomset checks.

Turn: (2.50 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG+1 checks, MP2 checks, bottomset bets, SB folds, BB folds, UTG+1 calls, MP2 folds.

River: (4.50 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG+1 checks, bottomset bets, UTG+1 calls.

Final Pot: 6.50 BB

#33 12-03-2005, 12:52 AM

I got three pair! Windmill slam those cards on the table. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

bottomset · #34 12-07-2005, 04:23 AM

UTG is unknown, BB is fairly lag, but scares a little easy

PokerStars 3/6 Hold'em (5 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: bottomset is SB with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG calls, 2 folds, bottomset raises, BB calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (6 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
bottomset bets, BB raises, UTG calls, bottomset calls.

Turn: (6 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
bottomset bets, BB calls, UTG folds.

River: (8 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
bottomset bets, BB calls.

Final Pot: 10 BB

Shillx · #35 12-07-2005, 04:27 AM

Hot

crovax4444 · #36 12-07-2005, 06:16 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (8 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: bottomset is Button with 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, 1 fold, MP2 calls, 1 fold, bottomset calls, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (5 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG+1 checks, MP2 checks, bottomset checks.

Turn: (2.50 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG+1 checks, MP2 checks, bottomset bets, SB folds, BB folds, UTG+1 calls, MP2 folds.

River: (4.50 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG+1 checks, bottomset bets, UTG+1 calls.

Final Pot: 6.50 BB

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I am so lost on playing this on the button. I really question whether this is simply just -EV to play, not even marginally. Even great post-flop skills on this feels like a leak.

I assume that the bet on the turn = partial bluff that you have a 10 + you slightly improved, beating overcards + everyone is checking to you. Would you fold this if it was raised on either the turn or river?

Crovax

jaxUp · #37 12-07-2005, 09:36 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (8 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: bottomset is Button with 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, 1 fold, MP2 calls, 1 fold, bottomset calls, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (5 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG+1 checks, MP2 checks, bottomset checks.

Turn: (2.50 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG+1 checks, MP2 checks, bottomset bets, SB folds, BB folds, UTG+1 calls, MP2 folds.

River: (4.50 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG+1 checks, bottomset bets, UTG+1 calls.

Final Pot: 6.50 BB

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I assume that the bet on the turn = partial bluff that you have a 10 + you slightly improved, beating overcards + everyone is checking to you. Would you fold this if it was raised on either the turn or river?

Crovax

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yes, he would.

MN_Mime · #38 12-07-2005, 10:41 AM

Oddly, 53s is one of my top ten money-makers with over 100 plays from the button. For some reason, I have a better feel when to release this hand (or when I am going to flop goot) than I do with JJ [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

RatFink · #39 12-07-2005, 11:03 AM

Playing this on the button here is hot.

Betting the river when counterfeited is hotter. Since the EV of checking is less than the EV of betting. Getting called by somebody with an Ace is definitely not cool but hot in a meta hot kind of way.

ReptileHouse · #40 12-07-2005, 03:17 PM

[ QUOTE ]
UTG is unknown, BB is fairly lag, but scares a little easy

PokerStars 3/6 Hold'em (5 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: bottomset is SB with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG calls, 2 folds, bottomset raises, BB calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (6 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
bottomset bets, BB raises, UTG calls, bottomset calls.

Turn: (6 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
bottomset bets, BB calls, UTG folds.

River: (8 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
bottomset bets, BB calls.

Final Pot: 10 BB

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I might try to c/r the turn, but other than that I like. OTOH, I have FPS these days, so betting out is likely better.

nice hand.