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#11
11-29-2005, 07:50 PM
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Re: JJ 10/20
[ QUOTE ]
I hate bet/fold in a big pot. [/ QUOTE ] I hate bet/fold also, however if you take the check/call line, you win the least when you're ahead, and you lose the most when you're behind. If you bet/fold, you lose the same you would lose when you're behind, but you win more when you're ahead. The only risk to bet/fold is getting blown off a winner by a LAG/TAG--and this is a real risk at 10/20 (as opposed to 5/10)--so against those player types I think check-call is right. But against more predictable opponents who wont raise the river on air, bet/fold is a painful but necessary line. 
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#12
11-29-2005, 07:54 PM
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Re: JJ 10/20
[ QUOTE ]
if you take the check/call line ... you lose the most when you're behind [/ QUOTE ] How? In fact, we may lose less when we are behind, if for some reason he had QJ and decides to check behind.
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#13
11-29-2005, 07:56 PM
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Re: JJ 10/20
I seriously think the biggest incentive to check is that he'll check some hands that beat us through. This is a tough bet with any 1 pair Q (would you?). We ARE the PF capper, after all. Use that to your advantage. Checking is the best situation with any opponent.
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#14
11-29-2005, 08:11 PM
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Re: JJ 10/20
[ QUOTE ]
We ARE the PF capper, after all. Use that to your advantage. [/ QUOTE ] Hero cold-capped from the small blind, bet all the way, then checked the river OOP. What hands could he possibly have? JJ is the only hand that makes sense (plus pairs like 99 in this 4-handed game). A player with QJ should figure this out and bet for value if you check.
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#15
11-29-2005, 08:13 PM
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Re: JJ 10/20
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] We ARE the PF capper, after all. Use that to your advantage. [/ QUOTE ] Hero cold-capped from the small blind, bet all the way, then checked the river OOP. What hands could he possibly have? JJ is the only hand that makes sense (plus pairs like 99 in this 4-handed game). A player with QJ should figure this out and bet for value if you check. [/ QUOTE ] People do get scared of check raises. Most of the time a better hand will bet, but occasionally they wont, and we save money.
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#16
11-29-2005, 08:17 PM
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Re: JJ 10/20
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] We ARE the PF capper, after all. Use that to your advantage. [/ QUOTE ] Hero cold-capped from the small blind, bet all the way, then checked the river OOP. What hands could he possibly have? JJ is the only hand that makes sense (plus pairs like 99 in this 4-handed game). A player with QJ should figure this out and bet for value if you check. [/ QUOTE ] People do get scared of check raises. Most of the time a better hand will bet, but occasionally they wont, and we save money. [/ QUOTE ] You're proving my point. Taking a check-call line means that "most of the time" you're letting better hands have the option of value betting you. Only "occasionally" will you save money. By the way, Im not trying to be super dogmatic here. I think it's close. But bet/fold is a superior line, I think, and one that takes some adjustment to get used to.
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#17
11-29-2005, 08:49 PM
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Re: JJ 10/20
The villain's line looks like an underpair that is hoping you have AK or AJ (99, 88, 77, maybe 44, even JJ rarely.) That King is a horrible card not only because some hands pulled ahead of you but also because, against a reasonable player, you lose all the value you had in a river bet. In other words, he's no longer beating anything against a typical preflop cap and he knows that. I think you get him to fire off a bet with a worse hand more often than he calls with a worse hand. Also, this early at a table against an unknown, I hesitate to use the bet/fold line and I'd like to show down a hand here. check/call is my line.
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#18
11-29-2005, 09:49 PM
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Re: JJ 10/20
[ QUOTE ]
A player with QJ should figure this out and bet for value if you check. [/ QUOTE ] If our opponent was solid, sure. I doubt that same opponent is paying us off with anything, however. I expect most of my opponents to check this through unless they're habitually over-aggressive (in which case bet-fold makes me kind of wobbly anyways).
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#20
11-30-2005, 12:49 AM
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Re: JJ 10/20
I don't like bet/fold against unknowns either. However, I'm learning where to apply this technique in my game so be that as it may.
As 10/20 is more aggro, this unknown opponent might be a thinking TAG and have read you're hand to be JJ, 99, or 88. If he just has Ace high, he knows his bluff just has to work 1 in 10 times or so. Checking gives him the option to bet, but he's sometimes betting with a better hand and sometimes not. So, you're not trying to induce a bluff here necessarily. I like check/call.
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