is there a such thing as an unlucky person???

[MzLisa]

To tell me not to call a raise on the turn i believe is stupid, most of them who raise will raise u will a horrible kicker, not 2 pair, they dont seem to raise with that.

for example at Pokkeroom:

I had AJ of clubs on the button, there was no raise before me so i raised. Ok 2 callers.

Flop: A rags
1st person bets, other calls i raise.
She re-raises me, i cap.

Fourth street: rag
Then she checks, so does the other person, so i bet,
she raised me again. I said what the... not straight poss. here though so i call.

River: a 3

she bets, other call, i call,

she had A3.

She raised and re-raised me with A little like i knew she was.

I see that all the time, and to say not to call a raise in those situations i think is stupid, especially when u know how they play.

THis is the luck of mz lisa, lol

[Still the Spank E]

You've got to know that when you're playing against a tableful of callers that they're usually withstanding your chip storm because they've caught SOMETHING. Even had the river not given the hand's eventual victor a really lousy-feeling win, playing these hands this aggressively is going to let you in for danger. I've had better success by checking it down in the face of people calling my flop raises and running when anyone bets if I still haven't caught anything (unless the raiser is one of the rare aggressive type found at the low limit tables). This is not to say that I consider this the rule--it has to do with my read of the opponents--but you CAN'T keep playing overcards like they're made hands AFTER a number several players have failed to be scared off by your raise. This time it was someone who caught on the river; I bet it's more often people who have ALREADY caught some little pair and that they are hoping can be turned either into two pair or trips by the time all the cards are out. Look for more straight and flush opportunities you can play cheaply (there's an amazing number of them at these levels) and don't bet other people's hands for them anymore. The GOOD thing about these tables is that your oponents are usually going to play loose, passively and weakly, so they're going to let you in with connectors and small pairs and you need to play them--though not past any flop that hasn't hit your hand HARD. You MIGHT OCCASSIONALLY look to take your 44 past the flop if you think you can win the pot right there, or there are enough callers that another small bet buys you a shot at a HUGE pot; otherwise--DITCH 'EM! Connectors--suited or otherwise--are even easier to play. Either you find yourself one card away from a straight or flush once the flop comes down--OR YOU'RE GONE! Fight hard against the impulse to chase here, too!

[Still the Spank E]

I got thrown off the computer I was on when writing the previous post, but wanted to say more stuff (if you're interested), so here goes.

As I suspected, one of your reply posts demonstrates that you're NOT making aggregious errors in hand selection or other stuff, and that the assumptions some other poster had made (including Ray Zee!) were not really the source of the problem. From all of your posts you seemed to be saying that you HAVE read and understood the standard poker literature and that you were playing poker appropriate to the kind of competition those books (Sklansky, Brunson, Malmuth, et. al.) are intended to address. The problem is that it's a different kind of table of opponents at the low levels, and the only book I hear repeatedly cited as a source for how to play them is Lee Jones' "Winning Low Limit Hold 'em." And while I really like the book, it is through experience that you're going to figure out these low limit tables. The best thing WLLHE affords the reader, by the way, is a near-catalog of pitfalls to avoid falling into if you've read the standard texts on hold 'em. The best teacher, as I said, is going to be experimenting with these hands that play well in multi-way pots (you should look for all info relating to such hands in Sklansky, Brunson, Malmuth, Jones, et. al.). Your posts demonstrate that you get it, not that you don't; it's just that there's not a lot of direct information on these kinds of games. Go do it and then show the rest of us how its done. Thanks for listening.

[brian0729]

MsLiza,

I am not going to take the time to address the rant. There are is a lot of luck in the short term of this game and very little in the long term. It is as simple as that.

What is not as simple as that are some of your statements. I looked at your starting requirements from one of your earlier posts. This game is not a cookie cutter game. You cannot have a list of hands in front of you and decide I will play this hand in this spot, period. Any playable hand can usually be called or raised depending on position and more importantly the opponents. Figuring out when and why takes time and expereince and table hours.

Your friend who says save some money and play 3/6 is dead wrong, he may be a decent player but this is incorrect. If you cant beat these micro games you will not be successfull at any higher level. Simple as that again , sorry.

Finally if you want to take your game to a new level, I would highly suggest posting some actual hands in the micro limits forum rather than complain here. I think the AJ hand was played rather poorly and your decision to have to raise instead of auto raising from the button w AJo first in shows that you need some work on your game. Also after you (the pre flop raiser) gets 3 bet on the flop you have to slow down in most cases.

I am not trying to sound condescending, Im really not but if you want to get better you have to work at it and forget about being the most unlucky person in the world.

[John Ho]

First off, you say people will raise with top pair lousy kicker but not 2 pair. That does not make sense. And second, you need to reread my post. I said not to call raises cold on the turn. That is, if you're playing 3-6 don't call 12 cold unless you have at least 2 pair. Do you know what "cold calling" means? Betting 6 and getting checkraised is different. Then you are only calling 6 more. You shouldn't always call...but people do weird things. If you're wondering why those are different it's because by calling 2 bets cold you open yourself to a reraise from the initial bettor plus you have to worry about 2 players showing strength rather than the 1 who checkraised you. Plus lots of checkraises in multiway pots are flush or straight draws perhaps with overcard outs hoping to build a big pot.

Honestly, I think you need to do something else with your time. Or at least stop being a fool about poker and admitting you don't know everything or frankly even much. If you read all your poker books like you read my post you are not getting much benefit from them. Hmmm...now that I think of it maybe you're just a troll. Hard to believe anyone can be this dense.

[John Ho]

Well they are playing microlimit with lots of players to a flop. No way aces hold up 80% of the time over a longer period of time. You have to be an aberration. Because playing pocket aces vs. pocket 10s heads up is about 80% for the aces. If there are more players your percentage will go down no matter what.

[John Ho]

Do you realize this hand you posted is JUST ONE HAND? Also, do you know the odds of someone holding A3 vs. your AJ with an Ace on the flop beating you by the river? The A3 is an underdog but not so much getting rivered should make you hysterical.

[BigBaitsim (milo)]

There is no such thing as an "unlucky person." Random events occur randomly. Over tens of thousands of hands, you and Gus Hanson will be dealt almost exactly the same hands.

Over the short term, or in terms of events with less frequency, sometimes statistical clusters occur, but these are meaningless. I remember a factory a few years back that closed down after 7 or 8 employees were all diagnosed with cancers within a few months. After a great deal of epidemiological research, it was found that there was no link whatsoever, and that statistical models would predict such an occurance at some factory, somewhere in the US, given normal variability in cancer occurrence.

If you have a crappy day, you have a crappy day. If you are a consistent loser over tens of thousands of hands, you are just a bad poker player. Sorry.

[FredJones888]

there is a heck of a lot luck in low limit texas holdem, more than many people would like to admit.

[Drunk Bob]

NO everyone has the same luck over the long run.Unfortunally the long run can be a long time.

Give the micro limits a try.

I did.