PL - flopped nuts with redraw to non-nut flush

[Post-Oak]

I am just learning to play Omaha high. I have read the chapter in Super System II, as well as the chapter in the Ciaffone and Rueben book (Pot Limit and NL Poker?).

I am totally inexperienced. I have just started to play.

How badly did I play this? Should I have called preflop? Can I safely fold the turn?

I have no reads on "villain", as he just sat down. He had none on me either.

$0.50-$1.00 PL, 9 players


Villain ($230) opens in MP with pot size raise to $3.50. One LP caller, SB folds, I ($184) call in BB with 6 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

Flop ($11.00), 3 players

4 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

I check, Villain bets $10, LP folds, I raise pot to $41. Villain calls.

Turn ($93) 2 players
4 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

I bet $40.50. He minraises to $81. I went into the tank, then went all-in for about $60 more. I figured he had the A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], but didn't know if he really had a flush.

How should I play that turn?

Any comments appreciated.

[scdavis0]

OK so let me get this straight. You thought that your opponent bet the flop with no pair/no draw but a fake nut flush draw. Then he called a pot sized raise. Then the diamond hit, and then he thought he would represent the nut flush by check-min raising you.

I think your hand reading skills need a little work.

I muck on that turn, personally. I dont like playing pots like that OOP. When he calls on the flop, i'm putting him on the nut flush draw. Omaha Hi- if you're not drawing at the nuts, then most the time you shouldnt be drawing. It sucks that you flopped the nuts, and you either had a dimaond draw or as i like to put it "diamond blockers", but I like waiting to put the money in on the turn so I can muck to the flush if it gets there, and opponents are more likely to fold the big draw on the turn when they have to call a pot sized bet with only one card to come.


Tex

[Post-Oak]

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OK so let me get this straight. You thought that your opponent bet the flop with no pair/no draw but a fake nut flush draw.

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At this point I thought he probably had AA in his hand. Is that reasonable? I realy don't know if it is or not, and I would appreciate your input.

[ QUOTE ]

Then he called a pot sized raise.


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Yeah, at this point, even I was suspicious. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

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Then the diamond hit, and then he thought he would represent the nut flush by check-min raising you.


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It was not a check raise. Do people represent the nut flush with a naked A at this level, or does that rarely if ever happen?

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I think your hand reading skills need a little work.

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Yeah.

[Post-Oak]

[ QUOTE ]
I muck on that turn, personally. I dont like playing pots like that OOP. When he calls on the flop, i'm putting him on the nut flush draw.

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Would you check fold the turn to pretty much any bet?

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Omaha Hi- if you're not drawing at the nuts, then most the time you shouldnt be drawing. It sucks that you flopped the nuts, and you either had a dimaond draw or as i like to put it "diamond blockers", but I like waiting to put the money in on the turn so I can muck to the flush if it gets there,


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So you would have check called that flop, even with the diamond blockers? And then you would lead pot on any non diamond?

What if the board paired?

[joewatch]

Your and Villain's stack are way too deep to be check-raising for 25% of your stack on the flop. I think you are better off check-calling or leading with hopes to take it down or to get raised, then reraising for at least 50% of your stack. Then you can just push the rest in on the turn no matter what card.

Any way, after check-raising the flop, I think potting it on the turn is in order. That way you are letting Villain know you can't get bluffed out.

I think your play was ok if your read is that Villain is making a naked ace bluff.

[Post-Oak]

[ QUOTE ]
Your and Villain's stack are way too deep to be check-raising for 25% of your stack on the flop. I think you are better off check-calling or leading with hopes to take it down or to get raised, then reraising for at least 50% of your stack. Then you can just push the rest in on the turn no matter what card.


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This makes a lot of sense to me.

Thanks for all the input guys. This should definitely help.

As for the results, I think it's no surprise that he had the nut flush and stacked me. In fact, he had the A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] AND the Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].

Edit to add:
His other card were 3 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. So he was raising with garbage preflop. I had thought he probably had AA when he bet the flop.