Not folding

[DeeJ]

So I'm playing Pacific 15/30 8-handed.

SB appears a bit loose/laggy, but no read on CO. What hands do you put them on?

PF: I limp 3 off button with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. CO limps behind. SB completes, BB checks. 4 to flop

Flop : 4 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
It goes SB check, BB bet, Hero calls, CO calls, SB raises, BB calls (2), Hero calls, CO raises (!), SB caps (!), BB folds (for 2 more), Hero calls.

I'm now in rather deeper than I like with outs to only the 2nd nuts .... Not folding. Maybe a 9/K would be ok?

Turn : K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (9 BB)

I like the turn, but how much should I like it? Not folding.

SB bets, Hero calls, CO calls.

River : 8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (12 BB) completes an open ended straight draw....
check, check, check.

What do we think? How did I do?

[arod15]

Raise the turn definitly.

[ggbman]

[ QUOTE ]
Raise the turn definitly.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, WTF? why on earth would you do that?

[veganmav]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Raise the turn definitly.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, WTF? why on earth would you do that?

[/ QUOTE ]

you mean why WOULD you raise the turn, or why WOULDN'T you?

[MattiasL]

Seems right.
After that flop action you are probably beaten in at least one place, but you can not fold.

My hand guesses:
SB: A set or 2 pair. A PP if you are really lucky.
CO: Flush draw.

[DcifrThs]

why has nobody stated that pf is bad?

you limped 3 off the button? wow. raise. period. K9s is plenty of hand to come in with in the Hijack. and if you choose to play it one off the hijack then definately come in with the raise.

on the flop you again NEED to raise the first bettor's bet. you can easiliy knock out KT/KJ that chose not to raise and maybe even A9o clearing up some outs. Further, you have a b/d straight draw along with those overs that somebody who limped T9 or J9 may call 1 here in position but not 2.

on the turn, AGAIN, i think a raise is correct. if you are behind, you have many outs except vs. a straight or set and even then you have a bit shy of a quarter of the deck. further, your K certainly improved your hand and you would now like to win w/o further improvement so you should knock out the hands behind you that would call (and be correct) to call for 1 bet in this large pot but not for 2. EVEN IF you are behind the bettor, its STILl correct to raise to knock out the 3rd best hand b/c you then divide that equity he lost (by sacrificing the times he'd win when he hits by folding) between you and the initial bettor.

FURHTER, you may now be ahead of the initial bettor who could easily have some combo of a pair+flush draw or nut flush draw or SF draw (unlikely but he can still easilyi have it)

therefore its a clear raise on every single street that you didn't raise...especially preflop, but ESPECIALLY the turn.

Barron

Edit: subject

[veganmav]

[ QUOTE ]
why has nobody stated that pf is bad?


[/ QUOTE ]

I guess I just assumed it was too obvious to point out.

and to the OP
Please raise or fold that preflop [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]
I think it also makes post flop a lot easier.

[DeeJ]

ok, street by street.

PF : Normally I'd be folding K9s here. Kxs has been a bad spewing hand for me and I'm playing it tighter these days. So mid position, K8/K9s is a limp to see a good flop. Your point about clearing KT/KJ is a good one but more often when htere are looseys playing I'm seeing them cold call and I end up paying for the privilege.

Flop: I have King high with flush draw. There is no reason to believe even if I hit my 9 or K I will be good. People do play crap.... my flush draw is probably good. So I'm just going with the flow as against 2 others my EV is about evens, against 3 others I'm gaining by calling (although we lose BB to the cap) but I don't want to pay more than necessary for a flush.

Turn: yeah, raise here? To me I'm up all the time against 2 pair or a set or a straight when the flop is capped on a coordinated board. As ggbman said, I took the same view here and considered I was likely way behind.

River: at least everyone agrees this is worth ducking [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[Seether]

[ QUOTE ]
PF : Normally I'd be folding K9s here. Kxs has been a bad spewing hand for me and I'm playing it tighter these days. So mid position, K8/K9s is a limp to see a good flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe if there are 3 limpers before you. Open limping in this position is honestly a horrible play.

On the flop, you cant see 76 or 88 getting aggressive? I think the turn is possibly a safe raise, the random 3 bet by CO is pretty often a draw and I think you might as well charge him 2 on the turn. On a river blank you can check it and he will almost always check behind i feel.

[Your Mom]

I can understand not raising the turn, but not raising PF and on the flop is just plain bad, in my opinion.