Is it ever correct to fold AA preflop in a NL tournament?

[athosandaramis]

About 3 months ago I was playing in a $60 NLH tournament in central CA. We were down to two tables of 8 players each (everyone is now in the money, the big$ is for 1st-3rd) I am in second chip position with 85k and the chip leader is at my table with 125k. No one else has more than 50k but most have between 15-30k. I am in late position and see AA. An early position player raises all-in for 30k. He is immediately called by another player over-the-top for 45k all in. That bet is also called all-in by a player with around 35k. The chip leader moves all-in. He is also called (5 handed). The chip leader has been showing big hands all day. I decide to FOLD. I believed that by avoiding this melee I could guarantee myself a spot at the final table and a high (top 3 finish) A bad beat by the chip leader ends my day and a suck-out by any of the other four opponents puts me back in the middle of the field. Anyway, the AA would have held up. I eventually finished the tournament in 3rd place ($800.00) payout. I welcome your thoughts. One friend calls it the best laydown he has ever witnessed, another says I'm the biggest p***y he has ever seen and calls it the weakest play ever and that I outsmarted myself. I must concede that had I called, I would have likely won the tournament. I am intrested in 2 things: 1) how did I play the hand and 2)is there EVER a time to lay down AA preflop in NLH tournaments?

[willie]

well you took 800

and the winner took.....2400ish?

so i'd say you made a 1600 dollar mistake.


ps- search for threads about laying down AA preflop.

the answer is, no. don't do it.

[midnight24]

The only time it's correct to fold AA in a tourney is when players at your table are playing scared on the bubble to make the money and you are able to steal blinds at will. By folding AA in this situation, you can continue to steal blinds and build your stack until a player gets busted out.

In your situation, unless you are only trying to move up in money, you couldn't have asked for a better situation to give you a huge stack and a great shot at winning the whole thing.

[augie00]

I'm going to scoop your eyes out with a spoon.

[hornsby15]

Yes there are times to fold AA preflop in tourneys, and I think this is one of them. Against one or even two opponents your AA is an obvious play, but against 5 players, you are still the favorite preflop, but you are definately less than 50% to win. Why risk your tournament life in such good position on something that is less than 50%. Now, had the chipleader not been involved, its a different story.

Mind you, I just started another thread about folding AA, so don't necessarily take my advice! [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[SheepCookers]

I disagree since chip leader is involved then there would be a decent side pot and if he does get sucked out by one of the smaller stacks he still gets a decent size side pot to break almost even.

Based on your logic if the chip leader moved in without anyone in the pot you should lay down?

[yecul]

[ QUOTE ]
I disagree since chip leader is involved then there would be a decent side pot and if he does get sucked out by one of the smaller stacks he still gets a decent size side pot to break almost even.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's my take on it. You're worried about the CL beating you, not the others. I do not like laydown unless you really needed that $800 and it was worth risking $1600 to ensure it.

[JohnG]

It's a clear play. You have X% chance of winning this pot, which practically guarantees you a big money place if not the win. (+ You only get knocked out if the chip leader beats your aces). Do you think you make the big money more often than X% by folding? Do you think folding here would make more profit for you in the long run?

I can see folding aces in a multi tourney under some circumstances, usually when there is a big jump in payout, there is a multiway allin pot, and winning the hand would make no real difference in improving your chances of finishing significantly higher. These are very rare. As fossilman has said in the past, if you never fold aces preflop in your lifetime, you probably won't ever be making much of a mistake. The bubble of a super sat is the only common type of situation you will face where folding is the right play.

Concentrate on learning something more important. Things like this and folding KK preflop are just not significant to your long term results. The only significant mistake you can make is folding too much, which of course will have a negative impact on your long term results.

[SheepCookers]

I don't think you are even guaranteed the 800$. Based on stack size and the fact the so many people managed to go all-in. I would guess the blinds are, at the lowest, 1K/2K probably higher. So it's not like original poster is sitting on over a 100 bets and would be able to cruise to final 3 or pick a better spot.

However I do understand desire not to gamble your tourney life away and I wouldn't disagree with laying down KK in that situation.

[hornsby15]

I see your point, and looking at it that way, I agree. By no means did I mean that you would fold this if heads up against the chipleader, what I meant was because you are playing this six handed, your percentage to win (preflop) is way lower than it would be heads up. Therefore it is a risker play in general, but now I see it as being in a good position to beat the chipleader even if you lose to a smaller stack and only win the side.

I told him not to take my advice! [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]