Winning too much....

[jacki]

I've kept it under wraps that i've played online (a little real, a lot for play), and also don't tell them i've read poker books.
i don't know why...seems like they would see it as unfair maybe ?

[James Boston]

My friends don't see my reading as unfair. They can't since I've offered to loan them the books. They just see the fact that I've actaully read a poker book as a sign that I'm there to win, not have fun.

[jacki]

to me, it's fun to win. it's no fun to lose.

[CrisBrown]

Hi kramerj,

I've thought about this for a few days, deciding whether and how to respond. My thoughts, worth what you're paying for them:

First, would I ever play badly in a game like that so as not to upset my income stream? I wouldn't play in a game like that for an income stream. You win $10 or $15 for two or three hours' work; that's less than minimum wage. (I average about $40/hr playing online tournaments.) So if I were playing in a game like that, I wouldn't be worried about the money. I'd be playing for the comaraderie, and I would loosen up my play a little and just have fun.

Cris

[jacki]

i guess 'income stream' isn't the right phrase.
i don't think i would ever get kicked out, but i don't want to piss off my friends. it's more about the fun of playing than trying to 'earn' money.
but i'm ultra-competitive, and i hate to lose

[Dentist]

I actually made a very similar post to this a few months back.

I play in a 3-6 all dentists game at a casino once a month.

I usually do OK, but no one notices a $100-150 win..

One time I went on an epic run of cards, played them outstanding, and blew up for +$450 in 3 hours.

No one was pissed, but I definitely felt the need to give back some the next time.

At the next game, after some initial friendly harassment about what I bought with "their money" I proceeded to dump about $90.... and frankly, if I'd been playing optimal, with the cards I got I was probably only on pace for a breakeven or slight win.

No one has said anything about it since.

I agree that you have to watch big dominating performances.
Although the bad players can have epic runs as well..

As for reading your books - my friends tell me that I try to ruin every "game" we play by looking up strategies on the net, always seeking an edge.... Be it fantasy football, poker, spades, everything.. i'm just always someone looking for an edge...

It frustrates them, but yet they still play, and take the worst of it.... Advantage me!

[MRBAA]

I have played in informal .5-.50 limit games for years and won over $1,000. You will definitely be violating the goodwill of the other players if you just play tight and aggressive. You must loosen up and not play strictly to win. I've found it easy to loosen up and lose a bit, then tighten up when I get pissed off. It's also important to differentiate among the players in my game. Some are pretty decent and play hard -- against them, I play my "A" game. Others are great people but awful poker players. Against them, I often play soft or call their winners for a bet or two.

I also play in a $1-2 game, where it's easy to win or lose $200 in a night. The players are no better, but because the money is meaningful, I play my "A" game except that I limp much more for one card and occaisonally don't go for every raise against the worst players. I have to make these concessions or I'd not be invited back.

Here is something I think is vital in friendly games however you choose to play: be totally honest about your reading and knowledge. I have encouraged others in my group to read books, told them I play higher stakes in casinos and even joked around about how I'm here to give them their weekly lesson, or if they can't make it to a game, just slip $10 in my mailbox. I think it is definitely unfriendly (bordering on a hustle) not to let the others know that you are a serious player. In my group, most of the players enjoy it and revel in taking me down. In a way, I think they begrudge me winning less, since they know I'm "serious" about it, while they are not.

[Ace-Korea]

You have to ask yourself why you play poker with your friends. (1) Do you play for money? (2) Do you play to socialize? (3) or Both?

I'm assuming that (3) is the answer. In that case, you should win SOME, but not ALL. Some people posted saying that, no matter what, they just hate to lose. But it's true for everybody, including your friends. They hate to lose, too. So if you're their 'friend,' then either play badly on purpose, or teach them a thing or two about poker every week. I prefer the latter option b/c they will thank you for the tips and the game just might be a little bit more challenging for you.

I'm not sure if simply playing loose is going to help out your friends. In loose games you might have the right pot odds to be loose so the loose style could actually be MORE profitable. (You just gotta call when you should fold to give some money back.)

And let your friends know one way or another that you play poker for money and you've read poker books. They might get REALLY pissed off if they lose money to you and then find out that you're 'Matt Damon' in Rounders.

I rather take money from my grandmama, not my friends.

[slamdunkpro]

[ QUOTE ]
Do you ever purposely play badly in a game like this, so as not to upset your income stream?

[/ QUOTE ]

I've got the same issue - We play a $200 buy in 1/2 blind no limit game between friends and co-workers. I usually end up about $600 up before the end of the night. At that point I'll loosen up and give some back.

[LetsRock]

I play in a monthly friendly game with some friends. It's been going on for years. All but a couple of these guys are absolute fish. I have respect for one guy's play who doesn't play a lot. Another is a used to be biggest fish in the pond who's trying to get a little more serious about it (reading books etc) but despite all advice and all books he makes more bad decisions than good.

The stakes are low (really bad night = losing $60) and won't hurt anyone in the least. We play dealer's choice with more garbage games than not some of them being made up on the spot ("7-card-no-peeky-chase-the-queen" comes to mind!) and is in general just a fun romp with the boys kind of night.

As a general rule, I win at least some most of the time. Due the nature of the games, anyone can win at least a little on any given night - everybody gets a chance to be the winner occasionally and there is no select group of players who consistently gets hammered all the time.

They all know that I play poker "more then recreationally" and I would guess that they all (those that even consider it that deeply) consider me to be solid player. They know I read books and since this is a friendly game, I will offer any advice they want to hear, even if this is considered to be "bad form" if you want to be a winning poker player. This is for fun. Frankly I'd rather they all got to be good players so that the games would be more challenging.

But, I never intentionally ease up or "play poorly" in this or any game. It just goes against my nature. If I have the nuts in a game, regardless of rediculous the game is, they pay in any way I can make them (c/r, slow play, ram and jam whatever).

I will "give away" edges like "I saw your cards", or "you're flashing the bottom card on the deck" type of stuff that I wouldn't in a more sophisticated game. But I always play my A game.

And I think, at least at some level, most of the guys enjoy the challenge of taking on the "big guy" in their circle.

As an example, a couple of weeks ago we had an impromptu game with only 4 players and we decided to play some mini-tourney style games. Winner take all NLTHE. After 3 mini-tourneys I'd not managed a victory (thanks to some-off-the- wall bad beats and one very bad move on my part), but they were all tickled that they'd each won and I hadn't. I won the fourth so we all broke even. Oddly enough I was the only one who could appreciate that is was basically a perfect night of friendly poker. We all got a lot of action, we all got the taste of defeat, we all had a few beers and some laughs and we all broke even! Isn't that ultimately the goal of friendly games?