Play the River for me, weak top pair out of the blind.

Dagger78 · #1 09-19-2005, 12:51 AM

Villian is 40/4/2 over 80 hands.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
4 folds, MP2 calls, 4 folds, Hero checks.

Flop: (2.50 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, MP2 calls.

Turn: (2.25 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, MP2 calls.

River: (4.25 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)

What's the best line?

newhizzle · #2 09-19-2005, 12:54 AM

i bet and probly call a raise, a player that loose will pay off alot of hands you can beat, hes aggressive too, but i dont know if calling a raise is correct

TheHammer24 · #3 09-19-2005, 12:56 AM

I initially thought bet/fold, then bet/call, and now I'm set on check/call. Villian is pretty damn aggressive so he will bet as a bluff very often when you check. Secondly, he will raise with a lot of hands that beat you, and perhaps, some that don't. This gives him some added EV when you fold to his raise. I think check/calling has the most value.

sy_or_bust · #4 09-19-2005, 12:59 AM

You should stop thinking about this as a weak top pair hand. In a heads up pot your Q8 is a very strong hand, and figures to be best by the river.

Against an aggressive player I will often checkraise the turn. As you played it, I'd rather bet/call the river than check-call (better is probably checkraise). You can squeeze extra bets from donks with A-high and weak pair hands, unless you know Villain to be good enough not to hold QT or A7, etc. by the river.

Dagger78 · #5 09-19-2005, 01:01 AM

I guess I would be more correct to say small top pair. Don't get me wrong I like my hand even on the river.

Moneyline · #6 09-19-2005, 01:35 AM

I think this is a fairly straightforward value bet. If raised I would probably call it if my opponent is aggressive.

Dagger78 · #7 09-19-2005, 01:54 AM

For everyone who voted value bet what do you think he range of hands he has that I beat AND he calls. Remember he have to have the best hand 55% of the times he CALLS.

Do I think I have the best hand? Yes.
Do I think I can bet for value? No.

Let the aggressive player bluff with a busted hand and pick it off. This also saves you from having to call a raise which you're going to have to reluctantly do.

I know the focus in these forums is always on value betting and inducing a bluff doesn't come up very often at small stakes, but there are times when it's the right play. A player this aggressive(Avg Agr. of 2 and a VPIP of 40) will bet very often when checked to on the river when you show weakness by checking.

Again, I don't want people to start checking the river to induce a bluff, but just be aware not all hands can be value bet. Value betting is still the bread and butter of small stakes success.

TheHip41 · #8 09-19-2005, 02:04 AM

[ QUOTE ]
For everyone who voted value bet what do you think he range of hands he has that I beat AND he calls. Remember he have to have the best hand 55% of the times he CALLS.

Do I think I have the best hand? Yes.
Do I think I can bet for value? No.

Let the aggressive player bluff with a busted hand and pick it off. This also saves you from having to call a raise which you're going to have to reluctantly do.

I know the focus in these forums is always on value betting and inducing a bluff doesn't come up very often at small stakes, but there are times when it's the right play. A player this aggressive(Avg Agr. of 2 and a VPIP of 40) will bet very often when checked to on the river when you show weakness by checking.

Again, I don't want people to start checking the river to induce a bluff, but just be aware not all hands can be value bet. Value betting is still the bread and butter of small stakes success.

[/ QUOTE ]

You dont think that guy would have raised a flush draw somewhere? If he has a J, good for him.

I'm betting, and calling a raise. Plenty of worse hands he will call with here.

Dagger78 · #9 09-19-2005, 02:12 AM

He would have raised with an 8 or a flush draw I'm sure. With his passive play in this case he most likely hand is two overcards, A9, QT, JT. Only with the Ace Highs(and the few small pairs) will he possibly call and he'll fold the rest. I think there is much more value at letting him bluff the hand.

jason_t · #10 09-19-2005, 02:13 AM

[ QUOTE ]
What's the best line?

[/ QUOTE ]

Induce a bluff. Check/call.