An Ode to Live Play Shot-Taking

[W. Deranged]

Hi folks,

I just returned from a very successful week of live poker in Atlantic City, and it helped to clarify some thoughts I have long held on the tremendous value of playing live poker. Some very interesting discussion has been had on this board in recent months about when it is correct to "take shots," namely to play at a level that is too high for one's bankroll in the long term. Sthief09 penned a particularly articulate post on that topic which generated some excellent discussion (check the digests for that).

The basic purpose of this post is to expand on those ideas with a thought of my own, namely:

Competent 2+2ers who play solid limit hold'em primarily online should strongly consider periodically "taking shots" in LIVE games.

Live poker is wonderful. I'm in fact kind of an anomoly on these boards in that I began playing poker in live casino and home games (Turning Stone $1-3 spread w00t!) I have always felt much more comfortable playing live, and in fact imagine that many of you are much more skilled and experienced in the things that make a great online player (including use of technology, focus, note-taking, multi-tabling discipline, table selection and so on). These are things I work on often.

But there are many, many wonderful things about live play that make it, in my opinion, more profitable in a big bet/100 sense then most internet tables. I'll offer a couple of reasons why I believe that many of you would benefit from adding more live play, particularly at higher limits, to your poker repertoire:

1. The players are worse. It's an interesting phenomenon that you go to most casinos and any mention of internet poker is quickly accompanied by comments about how "you always get sucked out on on Party Poker" or "everyone's so terrible online." In fact that's not true. On average, I have found that the majority of 3/6 and 5/10 tables that I will regularly play online are more difficult to beat than most of the mid-limit tables (10/20, 15/30, and 20/40) that I usually play live. There are a number of reasons for this. One is that live poker is more social, and so more people are there playing for social reasons. Live poker rooms are filled with regulars who are all friends with each other and the floor people, are often poor to mediocre players who never learned all that much and are not about to start now. They play for fun, they enjoy some conversation, and don't mind losing a little. There are also players there just for a night of fun; people out drinking and celebrating and just looking to gambool. There are people who come and don't leave the table for five days straight. For a variety of reasons, live poker tends to feature more bad play in my experience.

2. There is so much more information available to you when playing live poker that you could never have available online. You can talk to people, watch them play, and often even get to hear them explain to you why they played their hands the way they did (talk about sweet reads!) Often you can pick up information that you would never even get a hint of online that makes your hands almost trivial to play. For example, I had a hand playing 20/40 at the Borgata this past week where I raised out of the BB with ATs and flopped top pair. Meanwhile, this slightly annoying regular who openly admitted to not believing in probability was openly discussing how he was playing his favorite hand which for him, probability be damned, never lost. He called for a 6 on the turn which hit, and he got a big grin on his face and started actually pointing out to the player next to him that his hand "never lost." I was able to fold the turn easily in a situation where I almost certainly would have paid off online.

3. Live play is a more complete poker "workout" in some sense. Because you can only play one hand at a time, and because there is more information avaiable to you, it is possible to play your hands more thoroughly and with greater precision. Playing live forces you to mull over more decisions (there's not much to do but think about your last missed value bet as your folding your fifth straight hand). It also forces you to study players more closely, watch the action more carefully, and hone your reading skills. This sort of practice, even if not frequent, will make you a better player. Also, there is a lot to learn about the ebbs and flows of poker in playing live. You'll get a closer look at how your opponents play, and why they play, and why they play like they play, and this can often give valuable insight into what kinds of thoughts and methods you are up against. Identifying certain thought processes that live opponents follow can be helpful in identifying the thought processes of online opponents, and this will be helpful in making faster, more precise reads.


So, if you've had a good month playing 3/6 and have built up 500 BB or something, and you've decided your up for "taking a shot" and commiting, say, 80-100 BB for a try at a bigger limit, why not consider making that attempt in a live game. Go to a card room and find a soft 8-16 or 10-20 game. These will be well within your scope if you're a winning 3/6 player. And there's so much to be gained.

Just some thoughts. I love playing live.

[hobbsmann]

nice post willy.

[shant]

You obviously have never played live poker in Los Angeles. I hate live poker. The only time I ever go anymore is to play with 2+2ers that I've never met, or when I go to Vegas. I agree that the players are worse, but having to sit in close proximity to the type of people that make frequenting Commerce profitable makes me feel sad.

[W. Deranged]

[ QUOTE ]
You obviously have never played live poker in Los Angeles. I hate live poker. The only time I ever go anymore is to play with 2plus2ers that I've never met, or when I go to Vegas. I agree that the players are worse, but having to sit in close proximity to the type of people that make frequenting Commerce profitable makes me feel sad.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have never played in California, true.

I should note that there unfortunate parts to live poker. One of them is that sometimes your opponents will be unpleasant, mean, or depressing. Sometimes they will be nice, courteous, and interesting, though.

[shant]

[ QUOTE ]
I have never played in California, true.

[/ QUOTE ]
You should come out. Then I'd have a reason to be at Commerce.

[W. Deranged]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I have never played in California, true.

[/ QUOTE ]
You should come out. Then I'd have a reason to be at Commerce.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was going to go to see Hobbsmann in August but then for some reason I ended up in AC instead.

Clearly misplayed on every street.