1st post including basic PP 10+1 hand

Pete H · #1 05-26-2005, 06:41 AM

1st I'd like to thank everyone contributing to this board and making this forum source of valuable information.

Long story short: I started playing 5+0.5 SNG's at Pokerroom few months ago, moved up to 10+1's and few weeks ago cashed out some, opened Party account and started to play 10+1's over there too.

In PP I've been having difficulties with the 800 chip structure and the lack of post flop play.

I've studied the AM 10+1 guide and been trying to adapt into push-push-push mode.
I now have about 100 PP SNG's and I'm getting better (at least I think so).

I was reviewing my old hand histories and found some plays I really don't understand (I should say that now I think I understand what I should've done).

Here's one example. There's one hand after this before blinds rise to 50-100.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t50 (7 handed) converter

BB (t2375)
UTG (t570)
MP1 (t590)
MP2 (t650)
Hero (t545)
Button (t1170)
SB (t2100)

Preflop: Hero is CO with 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
1 fold, MP1 calls t50, 1 fold, Hero calls t50, 1 fold, SB raises to t100, BB calls t50, MP1 folds, Hero calls t50.

Flop: (t350) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB bets t50, BB calls t50, Hero raises to t445 (All-In), SB calls t395, BB folds.

Turn: (t1290) A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: (t1290) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: t1290

I don't know what I was thinking when I overcalled with almost 10% of my stack.
Now I'd push on that spot, and I believe that's what most forum contributers would do.

I wouldn't be happy doing PVS here (can you do it from CO or is it only PVS from button?) with any two as there's 4 big stacks after me, but I really like the concept and have been learning to use it as I think it's not that good to always wait for level 4 before you start stealing.

I looked up previous hands on this tourney and there was about 50% chance that we'll see the flop without raise. So that might have been in my mind, but I think I'm still in the Pokerroom mood here. There I'd usually have at least 1300 chips here and I'd most likely call this.

After the minraise, I called again probably to see the flop cheaply so I'd be able to fold scary flop. Not that smart as it only leaves me 445 chips and I'm soon going to pay 150 in blinds. So this has to be my spot to add some chips or die.

After the stupid pre-flop play, on the flop I seem to have only 1 option.
I'm pretty sure I'm against overcards and with only two cards to come I'd have 50% chance to take the pot even against two callers with 4 live overcards. And it's likely they share an ace or king, or at least one of 'em will fold.

If you guys are willing to reply, I'll try to find some more interesting hands.

Pete H · #2 05-26-2005, 07:42 AM

Maybe I haven't played any interesting PP hands. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

I don't like calling with these stacks and I believe push here is pretty much standard.

If I'd only call, I might fold to a flop bet from UTG in this situation.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t50 (8 handed) converter

BB (t760)
UTG (t715)
UTG+1 (t1345)
MP1 (t2130)
MP2 (t930)
Hero (t725)
Button (t1037)
SB (t358)

Preflop: Hero is CO with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG raises to t175, 3 folds, Hero raises to t725 (All-In), 3 folds, UTG calls t540 (All-In).

Flop: (t1515) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players, 2 all-in)

Turn: (t1515) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players, 2 all-in)

River: (t1515) J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players, 2 all-in)

Final Pot: t1515

Pete H · #3 05-26-2005, 07:53 AM

Here I should be pushing with any two?

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t300 (4 handed) converter

BB (t2839)
UTG (t2841)
Hero (t1002)
SB (t1318)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
3 folds.

Final Pot: t450

Freudian · #4 05-26-2005, 09:05 AM

Hand 1: Push or fold preflop, depending on how you interpret the minraise. SB will call I suspect, but you don't want more than one player with you in this hand. The minraise always looks weird to me. I would probably fold here and wait for a better spot. If everyone was limping I would like pushing more.

As the hand went, pushing the flop is fine.

Hand 2: Fine.

Hand 3: Puah if you think SB can fold here.

Pete H · #5 05-26-2005, 09:14 AM

Finally found a hand that I don't know how to play.

Besides folding preflop and that's what I do with these hands, but I was getting good odds and had the position.

FLOP:
A set of Jacks would probably check this flop from EP, so I didn't have the balls to raise/push this flop.

Would you push here?
I know chasing is stupid with these stacks, but I think at this hand it was ok to call and be prepared to abandon the hand if someone raises.

TURN:
Now I was pretty sure that there are no sets, but just called 'cos I knew that's the price I'll see the river and was prepared to fold without spade.
This would've been good spot for push and I think I'd do it now (if for some reason I didn't push the flop)

River call was cheap so I made it anyway in case there are only overcards and/or A4.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t30 (8 handed) converter

Hero (t715)
SB (t957)
BB (t715)
UTG (t2010)
UTG+1 (t573)
MP1 (t740)
MP2 (t820)
CO (t1470)

Preflop: Hero is Button with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG calls t30, 2 folds, MP2 calls t30, CO calls t30, Hero calls t30, 1 fold, BB checks.

Flop: (t165) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (5 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, MP2 bets t40, CO calls t40, Hero calls t40, BB folds, UTG calls t40.

Turn: (t325) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
UTG bets t30, MP2 calls t30, CO calls t30, Hero calls t30.

River: (t445) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
UTG bets t30, MP2 calls t30, CO folds, Hero calls t30.

Final Pot: t535

Pete H · #6 05-26-2005, 09:25 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 1: Push or fold preflop, depending on how you interpret the minraise. SB will call I suspect, but you don't want more than one player with you in this hand. The minraise always looks weird to me. I would probably fold here and wait for a better spot. If everyone was limping I would like pushing more.

[/ QUOTE ]

At this hand I was CO so I'd be pushing after one limper, before the SB's minraise.

But I agree that if there was a limper and minraise before my first action, then folding might be good.

And thanks for the input.

Freudian · #7 05-26-2005, 09:36 AM

That hand is the perfect illustration for why you should be overly tight in levels 1-2 (and 3 to some extent).

Despite you not making any bad decisions in the hand, you lost almost 1/5 of your stack.

I would fold preflop. Your ace is next to worthless and playing simply for flush value is a sure way to bleed chips.

Freudian · #8 05-26-2005, 09:41 AM

[ QUOTE ]

At this hand I was CO so I'd be pushing after one limper, before the SB's minraise.

But I agree that if there was a limper and minraise before my first action, then folding might be good.

And thanks for the input.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ah, my bad. I hate limping with a stack of ~10BB, even after someone else limped. Push or fold. Here I don't mind a push. You pick up the 125 chips often enough. And with your stack those extra chips make a difference when level 4 comes.

With limping and trying to flop well you are bleeding away your stack.

Pete H · #9 05-27-2005, 02:44 AM

[ QUOTE ]
That hand is the perfect illustration for why you should be overly tight in levels 1-2 (and 3 to some extent).

Despite you not making any bad decisions in the hand, you lost almost 1/5 of your stack.

I would fold preflop. Your ace is next to worthless and playing simply for flush value is a sure way to bleed chips.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, now I'd fold that preflop too, but in the spirit of this board, let's say that the preflop call was a missclick.

What's the best flop action?

To make it easy, let's say that there's 30% chance that there's Jack out and only Jack will call if I push

70/100 - I win 245 chip
30/100 - I get called and win 880 chips 9/100, lose 675 chips 21/100 times

+17150
+7920
-14175

With these guesses pushing would be +EV (+109 chips)
Better than folding, and probably better than calling too.

The real problem is, I don't know how to make good guesses/estimates in these kind of situations.