Anyone have Exact Chip Counts of the Raymer vs. Kanter hand?

[ QUOTE ]
So you are discounting Gregs read?

Pushing it pre-flop would be crazy. Pushing it on the flop would be crazy. Greg had a pretty big stack and overbetting pre-flop or the flop would only get him called by a better hand.

One can argue that he underbet the flop or the turn, but that is Greg's way of playing. He is not going to pot bet all the time. He would rather underbet which allows him to do it for a lot more than just his good hands.

If you were Greg, you wouldn't have won in 2004 or made it to 25th in 2005.

Ken

[/ QUOTE ]

Pushing pf would not be crazy. Neither would doing it on the flop. He needs to have a roadmap of where he is going with the hand. I don't think he was thinking two steps ahead. If he's going to call in at some point, just push earlier. Slowplaying KK is a disaster on a dangerous board.


I have alot of respect for Raymer and think he is a terrific player. But I just don't like his play on this hand - which is not an insult to him.

[jeffraider]

[ QUOTE ]
But I just don't like his play on this hand - which is not an insult to him.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's more of a compliment, Overbet Master, sir.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showth...page=1&vc=1

[Toro]

[ QUOTE ]
If he's going to call in at some point, just push earlier. Slowplaying KK is a disaster on a dangerous board.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're not remembering the hand correctly. Raymer didn't "call" all-in. He re-raised all-in forcing his opponent to call for all his chips on a draw with one card to come.

[ QUOTE ]
Pushing pf would not be crazy.

[/ QUOTE ]

Let's be real clear about this... you favor an open push for $2 point something million? Are you serious?

You still haven't explained why he should fold the turn. Greg has explained his read here before. Stacking a guy who is way behind with one card to come is how you win tournaments. Greg plays to win... sounds like you play to not lose quite so fast.

He should fold the turn because it's a dangerous board and he has one pair. Why even push the turn? He knows he's going to get called since Kanter raised 600k. Yes, Kanter had two hearts, but that's results oriented thinking.

At teh same time, I think Kanter made a bad play by not pushing the turn. If he is going to raise, just push.

If Raymer is pot commited, ok. If he's not, I'd get out. Most times he's beat on the turn against a strong raise.

[Walter Pullis]

In my entire poker "career", I have never been, in a single NLHE tournament either online or B&M, as lucky as Kanter.

Have you?

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
But I just don't like his play on this hand - which is not an insult to him.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's more of a compliment, Overbet Master, sir.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showth...page=1&vc=1

[/ QUOTE ]

Amazing. Simply amazing.

[swarm]

ummmmmmm, still no answer to the initial question. Anyone have the episode tivoed that could figure out the chip counts.

[troymclur]

1. Slowplaying KK heads up is not crazy.
2. He didn't slow play.
3. Pushing would be moronical (yes i know that's not a word). A push (around 2 million) in comparison to the pot size at the time would be a nonsensical move, as hands you beat won't call a push, while the hand that beats you will. By far, most of the time you'll get a fold and win a miniscule ammount of money compared to the ammount you gambled with, while playing the hand (read: not a slowplay) will extract far more chips for far less risk.
4. "If he's going to call at some point, just push earlier" is not sound thinking. Pushing earlier virtually gaurantee's a fold, while playing out the hand and pushing latter pot commits weaker hands (and oh my, that's just what happened!)
5. This is all moot since we have no damned clue from just watching a hand on TV.

[Kyle Stark]

[ QUOTE ]
ummmmmmm, still no answer to the initial question. Anyone have the episode tivoed that could figure out the chip counts.

[/ QUOTE ]

easiest thing to do would to be go to card player, I'm sure they still have the live updates up.