Follow up to the big discussion yesterday!

[pooh74]

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Let me let u in on a little secret...if I am bigstack in your game, I am raising with 72 w/ 4 left...or who the hell knows...

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You're serious about 72 right? Don't kid with me. I mentioned having a minor revelation recently which was basically, that I could tell when FE was huge and I could push with any two and it was good. Last night I started looking at my cards again and saying "Ok, anything but 72, next time I'll push, I promise."

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Ok, 83 or better

If I just raised all in as big stack on bubble 3 times in a row, Ill fold KQs UTG (maybe)...im more concerned about conditions at this point than cards...and obviously I am giving extreme examples to prove a point.

But I dont want to distract from the fine discussion in this thread re: folding AK and going on to be king of the world...

Rolen: why did you post this if you refuse to consider that it may be the wrong move? (IMO...horrible...i feel silly even saying it its so obvious to me)

[citanul]

note: ak is not the same as a big pair. it'd almost definitely a call/push 4 handed in your situation, but it's not the same as saying you should fold kk. for instance, in the daliman hand from yesterday, i'd probably fold AK given the shortness of the blinds, but i'd never fold kk-jj i don't think.

i think it's vaguely entertaining that you said "a couple steals later" and somehow eliminated 2 players.

meh

citanul

rolen: you're describing your play as classic weak tight, and then justifying individual plays with results. that's just not good.

[pooh74]

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Well that's what you should be doing. And i'll be folding, just like I should be doing

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With AK? listen...i am not going to talk you out of playing that weak...but this forum is for advice...take it or leave it.

[Rolen]

Hey hey, i'm not trying to say THIS IS THE BEST PLAY DO THIS, don't want to come across as arrogant (even though I may have..) I'm saying this is a way to play, and it works for me at my level. We're all about debate here!

[adanthar]

This one's closer than the other one (folding KK...I wish there was a rolleyes smiley here) mostly because of what that giant raise means from a typical 20+2 fish. Those raises usually mean decent or big hands, and if you know he has a pair you can fold, so it's not all THAT bad of an option.

That said, I'd call, you should call too, and if you keep playing weak/tight on the bubble you'll be back posting an 'OMG how have I lost so much, weep for my bad beats' thread in no time flat.

[codewarrior]

At the $20 level, with little to no reads and less than 4BB left, I call. Odds are you will be blinded out waiting around for a better spot. I don't think this is close.

[Rolen]

'rolen: you're describing your play as classic weak tight, and then justifying individual plays with results. that's just not good.'

I'll clarify :

I definately err on the side of weak-tight in my calling options, certainly not in my raising ones, more LAG. Fortunately for my bankroll I seem to be able to take the best of both extremes rather than the worst. About the KK, I was really inferring that for Dali to make that move he must've had a strong read that the people in front were super-tight in their calling requirements (like me) in that situation.

Obviously I have plenty to learn

[pooh74]

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note: ak is not the same as a big pair.


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granted...but he is dominating so many hands that BS is pushing here and is AT WORST a coinflip...(barring the obvious 2 hands).

Listen, i have AK here...im even with the other 3 stacks for all intents and purposes...if BS flips over qq-55 i would probably fold...the reason you call is because of the % this is a hand that you kill...and its high here. if you dont push your edges you're gonna find a huge % of 3rds and 4ths over the long haul.

[citanul]

rolen's making baby jesus cry. i'm going to go watch something tivoed.

citanul

[pooh74]

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This one's closer than the other one (folding KK...I wish there was a rolleyes smiley here) mostly because of what that giant raise means from a typical 20+2 fish. Those raises usually mean decent or big hands, and if you know he has a pair you can fold, so it's not all THAT bad of an option.

That said, I'd call, you should call too, and if you keep playing weak/tight on the bubble you'll be back posting an 'OMG how have I lost so much, weep for my bad beats' thread in no time flat.

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I think reads are usually futile at this point of the game...I think a call from UTG BS may raise a red flag...but at this point of the game (even less so than heads up i believe) reads take a back seat to position, image (read correlated, i know), stack size, and what you're holding.