Is B&M low limit waste of time?

solucky · #1 10-15-2005, 04:57 AM

Hello

I am just back from my first vegas vacation (2 weeks). We had a great time in a great town. First of all the low limit games on daytime inside the week was not good, on the weekends they were good. I was shocked about the unbelievable high rakes / tipps, mostly they remove 3-4$ + 1$ for jackpots + 1$ tipps that was unbelievable 600$ in 2 hours. The nost players buyin with 1-200. I made a small profit, but i dont longer agree that B&M is " softer". The games are better, but the costs are killing you more. Think myself to play next time 5-10.

Wolfgang

BigFishSmallCardRoom · #2 10-15-2005, 05:27 AM

I think it's nearly impossible to make much profit at the 4/8 level and below at B&M. The rake and jackpot drop is just too high. At my cardroom, at 3/6, they rake 3 and take 1 for jackpot. Seeing as most people buy in for 100 or less...they are busting one player every 20 hands. That means they have to find at lease 1 new player per hour to fill that seat. How is there any money left to profit from their terrible play? I would say play online until you can play at a level you can start playing B&M at 10/20 level or above.

JJNJustin · #3 10-15-2005, 06:44 AM

The high impact of the rake makes it tough, but not impossible to earn $$ in low limit B&M. But you have to be selective. For example, dont play at a 5 handed game with no waiting if they dont lower the rake and you're not an expert at short handed play. Or if you find the players to be tough or trickier than average, dont play. If you cant find 1 or 2 donks at the table that make the game worth playing, dont play. When I play in a low-limit game, or any game where I have to pay a rake, I like to be pretty sure that I'm the best player in the game. The edge you get when you are feared at the table is worth $$$.

-J

RydenStoompala · #4 10-15-2005, 08:09 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Is B&M low limit waste of time?

[/ QUOTE ]

With one exception, yes. The exception is if you have never played before and have to learn game etitquette. Otherwise, you are grinding it out in an expensive lottery.

steamboatin · #5 10-15-2005, 08:42 AM

5-10 is a terrible game structure and should be avoided like the plauge. Play in a multiple chip structure (the more chips in the pot, the better).

Your profit in poker comes when other people make more mistakes than you. Low limit B&M poker is beatable just because the other players make big mistakes on a regular basis.

The answer to your question, "Is low limit B&M a waste of time?" is the same as the answer to most questions regarding poker, it depends.

If you are a rocket scientist and can make large amounts of money away from the poker table, then yes it is a waste of time.

If you are like one of my friends down at Caesar's In, a retired guy and your goal is to have a good time and win a little more than you would make being the greeter at the front door in Walmart, then the answer is no.

He plays a few a hours of 2-4 or 4-8 books a modest win and goes home, So low limit poker is perfect for him. He doesn't want to put a lot of money at risk, the extra cash is nice and He has something to do that He really enjoys.

chesspain · #6 10-15-2005, 09:17 AM

[ QUOTE ]
5-10 is a terrible game structure and should be avoided like the plauge. Play in a multiple chip structure (the more chips in the pot, the better).

[/ QUOTE ]

This answer is just foolish. The only difference between this game and a game like 4-8 or 8-16 is that the SB is 2/5 of the small bet. 5-10 games can be as a donktastic as any other game, even if players don't have to physically handle a lot of chips.

steamboatin · #7 10-15-2005, 11:29 AM

I can't remember the title of the thread but I held the same belief as you and we had a giant discussion here in the B&M forum about chip structure and its impact upon action.

I was wrong. Chip structure has a huge impact upon action. Overall and on the average a multiple chip structure game will be looser than a single chip structure. Now don't say "Well last thursday the 5-10 had eight family capped pots in a row!" because everything about poker is situational. Some days the single chip structure will be loose and the multiple chip games will be tight but overall, day in and day out there will be a significant difference in the action.

Don't just take my word for it, start watching on your own and you will see. Once you begin watching for it, it is very noticeable over period of time.

drewjustdrew · #8 10-19-2005, 05:30 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I can't remember the title of the thread but I held the same belief as you and we had a giant discussion here in the B&M forum about chip structure and its impact upon action.

I was wrong. Chip structure has a huge impact upon action. Overall and on the average a multiple chip structure game will be looser than a single chip structure. Now don't say "Well last thursday the 5-10 had eight family capped pots in a row!" because everything about poker is situational. Some days the single chip structure will be loose and the multiple chip games will be tight but overall, day in and day out there will be a significant difference in the action.

Don't just take my word for it, start watching on your own and you will see. Once you begin watching for it, it is very noticeable over period of time.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you start watching for the opposite, you will find that is true as well. It's called confirmation bias. We see what we want to see.

Chesspain is more correct IMO. 2/5 blind structure outweighs # of chips as a factor for tightness of play.

cardcounter0 · #9 10-19-2005, 08:00 PM

Then all those silly casinos spreading $4-$8 or $6-$12, instead of $5-$10, must have rocks in their head!
[img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Chip structure far effects tightness of games rather than blinds. Fish like pushing large stacks around. If they are in for a buck, they are in.

betgo · #10 10-15-2005, 08:54 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I was shocked about the unbelievable high rakes / tipps, mostly they remove 3-4$ + 1$ for jackpots + 1$ tipps that was unbelievable 600$ in 2 hours.

[/ QUOTE ]

At 30 hands/hour, an average $3 rake and $1 tip, that is $240 in 2 hours taken off the table. They don't play as many hands/hour as online. The jackpot rake goes back to the players randomly, so it can't be counted.