Roy Cooke on Cheating and Cheaters

[Vincent Lepore]

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And since Russ named names, it lends credence to suspicion of those names.

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I believe that it is wrong (unethical and... I can't find the word or description)) to accuse someone of something as serious as cheating without offering some form of proof.

Vince

[hmmmmm]

Wasn't Roy Cooke the one who admitted to reviewing players hands on planetpoker and using it agains them in live games?

[Seahorse]

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Wasn't Roy Cooke the one who admitted to reviewing players hands on planetpoker and using it agains them in live games?

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<font color="black"> </font> No – Cooke wrote in article in CardPlayer (not exactly an admission) about reviewing the play of a friend and helping that friend – my memory is that people said they were afraid Cooke would do what you said, but he always firmly denied it and Caro backed him up.

I think what Cooke said in this post was:
Russ G. is definitely a cheat and his info on cheating on his website is good.
Cooke knows some of Russ G.’s accusations are true, believes some are true, he doesn’t know about others, and he’s not accusing anybody in particular. (I’d like to know which, but I can understand his reluctance to go farther.)
Under 10-20 cheating is irrelevant, higher it starts to matter. Real high it matters a lot.

This is a guy who has spent the last 5 or 6 years investigating internet cheating accusations. I’d guess he knows something about it.

All these guys are part of the industry, including David and Mason. And it’s a pretty clubby industry. Mason once said he thought he’d never been cheated. David has said indirectly a number of times he’s sure there is cheating. Like Cooke they have an interest in not causing problems for the industry which pays their bills.

I live in LA but spend a lot of time in Vegas. Cooke doesn’t play $4k-$8k but he knows pretty much everybody, probably sees and hears a lot. He did play-by-play at Live at the Bike recently (he was really good) he's always hanging out with top poker people.

I’ve seen in his articles that he has a strategy of never playing the highest game of his type in a room, because the best players and the cheaters play high when it’s available ---- if there’s $100-$200 at the Bellagio which sucks the toughies out of the $80-$160, he plays $80-$160. If the biggest middle limit hold em game is $80-$160, as it often is at the Bellagio he plays $30-$60. I’ve seen him playing $200-$400 at the Commerce though he usually plays $40-$80 there and $75-$150 at Hollywood Park. They were both sweet games where he obviously had huge edge. I think that’s what he’s about, picking the best spots with the least fluctuation.

I heard from a good source that Party busted a guy with 350 accounts and IP addresses who was playing 5 seats in 6 handed games. I know at least two high profile Vegas regulars, friends of mine actually, were barred from several sites including Planet and PokerStars for cheating. And I’m not in the know like Cooke, David and Mason – I’d bet they know lots of stuff I haven’t heard. And I’ve heard stories like the ones Russ G. tells lots of times over the years, though I got no clue whether they’re true or not.

I do know that I heard from a real reliable source that when Scotty N. checked the nuts behind Daniel N. at a WPT final table on television, Daniel had put Scotty into the tournament. That’s surely not a righteous thing, and I kind of think Daniel is a good guy and straightshooter.

I’m sure we all get cheated some but it’s like the rake, just an expense of playing the game that you have to allow for.

I think it’s pretty remarkable that Cooke went against the grain of the industry’s tendency to just not talk about this subject and take a public stand. You can quibble over the details about how he want about it, but hey he’s got us all thinking and talking about it and that’s got to be bonus.


BTW since I admit to having friends who cheat I made a new account to make this post.

[Skipbidder]

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I do know that I heard from a real reliable source that when Scotty N. checked the nuts behind Daniel N. at a WPT final table on television, Daniel had put Scotty into the tournament. That’s surely not a righteous thing, and I kind of think Daniel is a good guy and straightshooter.

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I'd be interested in hearing substantiation on this issue if there is any way someone can provide it.

[Mason Malmuth]

Hi Jedster:

I've written on the topic. Again see my book Poker Essays, Volume III.

Best wishes,
Mason

[Mason Malmuth]

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All these guys are part of the industry, including David and Mason. And it’s a pretty clubby industry.

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If you think I'm part of the club, you better think again. Go to Google archives of RGP and you can start reading the many personal attacks made on me by some of these club members.

MM

[Seahorse]

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I do know that I heard from a real reliable source that when Scotty N. checked the nuts behind Daniel N. at a WPT final table on television, Daniel had put Scotty into the tournament. That’s surely not a righteous thing, and I kind of think Daniel is a good guy and straightshooter.

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I'd be interested in hearing substantiation on this issue if there is any way someone can provide it.

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I'll call the person I got it from get the details and get back to you. Seems to me it was one of the cruise ship events.

[Seahorse]

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Hi Everyone:

Here's the way I see it. Russ G essentially called everyone a cheater with usually no evidence to back it up. Cooke should know better than to write anything that appears to endorse him in any way.

Below is an article that originally appeared in Poker Digest that is now in my book Poker Essays, Volume III. It is the position that both David Sklansky and I take on this issue.

Best wishes,
Mason



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Mason -- I find the use of the word "usually" interesting. Isn't that a qualified endorsment of some of what Russ G. says but not all of it? Isn't that the same thing Cooke did?

And I didn't mean to imply any wrong-doing with the club comment. I used to be an rgp person and one of the reasons I left was the way they treated people like you, Brunson, Caro and Cooke. 2+2 is a much friendlier place. I only meant that you make your living from a poker related business so what's good for poker is good for you and what's bad for poker is bad for you, and it it's only reasonable for you to protect your own self-interest.

Nothing bad meant by it.

I think you and David are poker's most credible spokespeople. I think Cooke is probably next. You should grab him as a writer! Be good for both of you! (I loved the Harrington book by the way, keep on doing what you do.)

[Mason Malmuth]

Russ G talked about some events that happened approximately 30 years ago and in which I had heard before. I also had heard about Martino almost 20 years ago.

MM

[Mason Malmuth]

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I only meant that you make your living from a poker related business so what's good for poker is good for you and what's bad for poker is bad for you, and it it's only reasonable for you to protect your own self-interest.


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You need to think again because that sure isn't my history. For instance I broke with Caro many years ago becuase I disagreed with some of the information that he put out and it certainly wasn't in my own self-interest to do so and I still feel some repercussions to this day.


If your comment was true, we would probably have about triple the number of books published and most of them would be garbage, but my job and life would certainly be much easier.

MM