KK into two raisers

[Guthrie]

Both opponents are unknown and early in the game. I put UTG+1 on a big pair and I wouldn't mind going HU with him, but MP2 is the wildcard.

I lead the flop to see who raises, UTG+1 still looks like a big pair, but MP2 just calls. If he's on a flush draw, and I 3-bet, he'll still have odds to call, even if UTG+1 caps.

If raising here won't push him off a flush draw, and won't make it incorrect for him to call, then is raising the correct action? Or should I assume my kings might hold up and raise anyway?

If he's like the average donk I play, and he already has the flush, he's waiting for the turn to raise. They must get an e-mail about this when they register. Anyway, I just call the flop. Too weak?

I assume UTG+1 will bet again, so I check the turn to see what MP2 does. He raises. Flush? Set? Trips? Bluff?

What do I do now and what should I have done before?

PokerStars 1/2 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is BB with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. MP2 posts a blind of $1.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 raises</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 (poster) 3-bets</font>, <font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero caps</font>, UTG+1 calls, MP2 calls.

Flop: (12.50 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 raises</font>, MP2 calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (9.25 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 raises</font>, Hero ?

[HouseCalls]

Preflop [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]- good
Flop [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] - This is a situation where you might be beat already and if you are not there are 10 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]'s on the turn that can cripple your hand. I think a bet here to protect your possibly leading hand is ok but when you get raised - especially with another caller - I'd give this up.
Turn - Even more likely to be beat with flush draw and a pair on the board; you did pick up two out (K's) to a full house but it's not enought to keep going ... fold.

[Eeegah]

Yeah, MP2 kindof screwed you here. I don't see what he could have had other than a slowplay, and you're only getting 7:1 to boat up when it might get capped on top doesn't make me happy. Sucks, but I think it's a muck.

[zuluking]

Raise the flop.

Mucking this hand on the turn is tragic.

[Aaron W.]

[ QUOTE ]
Preflop [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]- good
Flop [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] - This is a situation where you might be beat already and if you are not there are 10 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]'s on the turn that can cripple your hand. I think a bet here to protect your possibly leading hand is ok but when you get raised - especially with another caller - I'd give this up.


[/ QUOTE ]

This isn't a very good analysis. The move from preflop to flop isn't very consistent in terms of suspected hand ranges.

[HouseCalls]

[ QUOTE ]
Raise the flop. Why?

Mucking this hand on the turn is tragic. Why?

[/ QUOTE ]
To quote the movie Big - "I don't get it" [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

[zuluking]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Raise the flop. Why?

Mucking this hand on the turn is tragic. Why?

[/ QUOTE ]
To quote the movie Big - "I don't get it" [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

To put it simply...More times than not you are ahead here.

[HouseCalls]

[ QUOTE ]

To put it simply...More times than not you are ahead here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is this more likely to be true ate the 1/2 level. I just moved up to .25/.50 and at least at these levels it seems like the players are almost never that tricky. When I started at these limits - and read posts like this one - I was more aggressive and seemed to lose more often than not. Crappy sample size its true but for those of you who have played both limmits - are the games different in terms of the number of tricky plays or is my experience just sample error?

[ QUOTE ]
Raise the flop.

Mucking this hand on the turn is tragic.

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah, what he said.

Seems like a surprising amount of people are certain we're seeing AA or AsKs. I think a lot of hands might play it this way. Remember, 99+ are overpairs to this board. and I think AKo with the As is likely playing this pretty fast with two others in the hand. The three [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]s set up a scary board, mp2 might be trying to take advantage of it. afterall, we all know that flopped flushes wait till the turn to raise, right? [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

edit: i forgot: 99+ pairs are consistent with the play from these two PF as well, but not 88, 66, 33, so sets aren't so likely.

[@bsolute_luck]

i had a similar hand like that the other day. 3-bet the flop. if a LP, ABC player wakes up on a blank on the turn: flush and i fold.