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#1
11-15-2005, 05:10 PM
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I Knew What You Had
80 hand. Main villian is a very strong player and plays better than I do. There, I can admit that much. Anyway...
Strong player opens for a raise in the cutoff. Loose player on the button coldcalls, SB folds and I go ahead and make it three bets with AK. Both of my opponents call and we see the flop three ways. Flop is Q-10-3 rainbow. I bet and only the strong player calls. The turn is a 4. I bet again and he calls. River is another ten (Q-10-3-4-10). I check, he sprays in a bet fast. I think for a second and he says, "I was ahead the whole time, believe me. I knew what you had, I wanted you to keep giving your money away." Anyway, I fold (I was going to anyway bf this diatribe). He shows 10-9. Is there anything to discuss here? Would you bet the flop and turn close to 100% of the time in this spot. What if the river truly blanked...are you check-calling? Thanks, Jeff 
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#2
11-15-2005, 05:15 PM
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Re: I Knew What You Had
Naw, bet the turn. He folds an underpair some percentage of the time and also gives up on 89. If he calls, you're still ahead some percentage of the time, and when you aren't ahead, you've got 4-10 outs. Check/call vs. check/fold is villian dependant. Online, I'd tend towards check/call.
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#3
11-15-2005, 05:24 PM
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Re: I Knew What You Had
It's evident that this player is in your head if you're posting this hand. Of course you played it fine. He didn't know what you had unless you're exhibiting some sort of tell - you play any AQ and KQs the exact same way, right?
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#4
11-15-2005, 05:28 PM
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Re: I Knew What You Had
He's full of [censored] when he says he knew what you had. If he had, he would've raised the turn. Why give you a free card to hit a 10 outer? He'd much rather you muck, and you might've thinking you were drawing slimmer than you actually were.
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#5
11-15-2005, 05:36 PM
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Re: I Knew What You Had
It sounds like this opponent has gotten into your head. If he really knew you had AK (before you checked the river), then he gave you a free shot to hit a 10 outer in a nice pot by only calling your turn bet.
Having a gutshot with overs holding AK is so common I don't think you should be looking for a standard flop/turn line. Some players adjust their line based on feel, others adjust based on game theory. Regardless of how you do it, this is a spot where you need to mix it up against observent opponents. Whatever line you take isn't going to have much effect on your long term ev as long as you don't take the same line too often. Also, spots like this are why you should be checkraising the turn with your strong hands a good percentage of the time. Inducing your opponent to check behind in that spot with a better hand is huge. Plus, you build some equity for the ocassional times you bet the flop and checkraise the turn trying to push an opponent off a better hand.
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#6
11-15-2005, 05:36 PM
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Re: I Knew What You Had
[ QUOTE ]
Naw, bet the turn. He folds an underpair some percentage of the time and also gives up on 89. If he calls, you're still ahead some percentage of the time, and when you aren't ahead, you've got 4-10 outs. Check/call vs. check/fold is villian dependant. Online, I'd tend towards check/call. [/ QUOTE ] If he "knows" what you have he is probably raising at some point to knock you off of your hand and not to give you a cheap chance to beat him.
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#7
11-15-2005, 05:45 PM
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Re: I Knew What You Had
[ QUOTE ]
Naw, bet the turn. He folds an underpair some percentage of the time and also gives up on 89. If he calls, you're still ahead some percentage of the time, and when you aren't ahead, you've got 4-10 outs. Check/call vs. check/fold is villian dependant. Online, I'd tend towards check/call. [/ QUOTE ] I agree with this quote, which is why I liked the way you played your hand Jeff. I would also like to add, that I was really confused as to what the strong player could have until you told us what his hand was. I think the strong player misplayed his hand postflop. On this board, it is almost mandatory that the strong player raise your flop bet with Qx or Tx, since the strong player could easily have the best hand and most importantly to force out the other opponent.
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#9
11-15-2005, 06:57 PM
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Re: I Knew What You Had
Well that's kind of a dumb thing for him to say considering his turn play was awful if he "knew" you had AK.
Aside - if there was ever a time to not 3-bet AK out of the BB, wouldn't this be it? If I put you against a top 20% range and a top 15% range in Pokerstove, you have 42.7% equity, so you gain 0.14BB in equity by the raise, but I think you are giving more than this up by defining your hand so well vs. a strong player whose hand is not well-defined, and has position on you.
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