Having kids when you aren't wealthy....

[SammyKid11]

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I'm not a parent myself, but many of my closest friends are. I find most of them have forgotten how to be adults. They've been reduced to sick, goofy photocopies of their former selves. And the reason why is because between working and raising their kids, they have no free time/spare money to do anything for themselves, by themselves. This causes them to be bad friends to those in our social circle, bad spouses to each other, and worse parents to their kids than they would be if they maintained their own identities.

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Bolded above is like saying "I'm not a doctor, but I play one on TV."

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No, it's really not. I don't have kids, but that doesn't mean I don't have an appropriate appreciation for what it's like to have kids, especially when I've been involved in many aspects of helping to raise a friend's child. Your argument is like saying, "you can't talk about the Soviet Union being a bad experiment in Communism because you never lived there."

WRONG.

You can observe behaviors, patterns, etc, and form opinions on those matters without them being completely invalid just because you've never directly experienced it. I didn't experience the Holocaust either, but I can say with a great level of confidence that it sucked ass.

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you compared having kids to Communism and the Holocaust, nice.

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Way to once again ignore what I'm saying and focus on one semantic in an attempt to not respond to what I'm saying. Fine, I can make the same parallel with good things...I don't have to live in Sweden to use my keen powers of observation and discover it has the highest quality-of-life on the planet, and thus is probably a nice place to live. I don't have to have BEEN Hugh Hefner to surmise that I would gladly trade lives with him (provided it was 50 years ago). Are you happy now? Can anyone on that side of this fence at least respond to WHAT I'm saying instead of nibbling around the edges just because you can't think of anything better to say?

Thanks.

[zoomOut]

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Thirdly, if all you can do is shake your head and go to bed, it's possible you have your head so far up your kids' asses that you've forgotten how to make coherent, adult arguments.........Thanks so much for being condescending.

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I thought this was funny. You are spot on.
I may not agree with everything you have to say but after I pulled my head out of my kid's ass I realized you made some very good points. This thread gets better and better. People should not be so smug that they can't see the humor (and truth) in statements like the above.


I happen to agree with both you and the OP:



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i have alot of respect for my parent and other people who raised kids on meager salaries.

but i also think its insane.

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I think it's insane too.


It just makes so much more sense to wait til you have money and are financially stable before having kids. Of course I say all this after having done it the other way and now I recognize the idiocy of my own youth. Sammykid may not have kids but he is no idiot and has seen with his own eyes what the reality is and it is not pretty. He doesn't need to have children of his own to recognize the resulting chaos that occurs when two people try to raise a family on a meager income.

[haakee]

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hell, i dont even know how anyone can have a wife without being rich when you consider how apt they are at burning money, and how many added expenses come along with a girl.

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Somehow each of the last several gf's I've had were not money burners. Maybe because a moneyburning chick would get tired of my frugality really fast.

[STLantny]

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IMHO there are two types of guys:
Guy number 1:
Guy is kind of douche baggish, but not that bad. He is just there.
Guy gets a girl, and sings the praises of how its great to have a gf/kids/etc. Of course he is pussywhipped.
Guy gets married too early.
Guy ends up being unhappy after awhile.
Guy gets divorced.

Guy number 2.
Guy is not a douche bag.
Guy is fun, outgoing, has lots of friends.
Guy sleeps with a bunch of chicks, but doesnt stick to one.
Guy ends up getting married later in life 30-40.
Guy lives to be 90 with his wife.

This is from my experience from my friends, and family that I have noticed. It just seems that all the 19-23 year olds who sing the praises of being in a relationship, and make sure you know about it are the ones that [censored] up later in life. Dont be that guy.

[/ QUOTE ] So this is a complete either/or? To not be a douche, you need to be fun, outgoing, and have lots of friends? I'm funny, but I don't arrange social gatherings & [censored]; that's somebody else's job. I need to be alone for at least 4-6 hours a day. Does that auto-paint me with the douche brush?

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This is obviously a gross generalization of two types of people. If the OP of this comment is implying that there are *only* these two types or even that there are *mostly* these two types, then it would follow that OP is claiming that most guys who get married under 30 get divorced among many other claims which are IMO likely to be false.

I don't know what the divorce rate is these days, and I've heard some shocking numbers, and I'm too lazy to google it, but I certainly wouldn't label most or all of my married friends as doomed to divorce.

Or myself, for that matter.

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You have a 50/50 chance to get divorced if you are the average american. Maybe higher now.

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I may have sounded harsh, but I really dont give a [censored]. I tottally understand putting your family in front of friends, I have no problem with that. But my particular friends, do not do anything, ever. They dont go out, ever, etc. And the only time I receive a call (I stopped calling them a long time ago), is when they need help with something, like sodding their lawn, or painting or something like that. I could tottally understand, if they called maybe once every month, just to see how [censored] is going etc, but they stopped that the second they got married. And these were really godd friends, that I rented a house with for 2 years etc. I just figured thats how everyone reacted when they got pusswhipped.
And you douche bags can call me a selfish jackass all you want, but Im not the one who decided to cut all ties to the outside world, because I have to focus on a relationship. I am not asking to go out and chase tail 5 nights a week, but hell, at least make 1 night a month to go out to a bar or a ball game etc.

BTW, most of my friends dont have kids, they just got married.

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Waaaaaaah. My friends had kids and won't play with me anymore. Waaaaaaaaah.

Dude, grow up. Move out of your parents' basement. Stop going to Star Trek conventions. Meet a girl.

[Dominic]

I think you should be allowed to have kids as long as you can aford them. Once you ak the State to help out (Welfare, etc.) the child/children get taken away from you and placed in wealthy barren couple's home.

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[dibbs]

"hell, i dont even know how anyone can have a wife without being rich when you consider how apt they are at burning money, and how many added expenses come along with a girl."


haha you are a king, kane.

[Ser William]

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I may have sounded harsh, but I really dont give a [censored]. I tottally understand putting your family in front of friends, I have no problem with that. But my particular friends, do not do anything, ever. They dont go out, ever, etc. And the only time I receive a call (I stopped calling them a long time ago), is when they need help with something, like sodding their lawn, or painting or something like that. I could tottally understand, if they called maybe once every month, just to see how [censored] is going etc, but they stopped that the second they got married. And these were really godd friends, that I rented a house with for 2 years etc. I just figured thats how everyone reacted when they got pusswhipped.
And you douche bags can call me a selfish jackass all you want, but Im not the one who decided to cut all ties to the outside world, because I have to focus on a relationship. I am not asking to go out and chase tail 5 nights a week, but hell, at least make 1 night a month to go out to a bar or a ball game etc.

BTW, most of my friends dont have kids, they just got married.

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This thread is clearly divided between the young, single, idealistic, generally well intentioned folks and then the people who've actually had kids.

You don't have to be rich to have kids.
You don't have to give up your friends to raise kids.
Having kids is not a death sentence.

You DO have to make some sacrifices and your life will change. To anyone who says differently, you'll find out someday. There is just no way you can be fully prepared for every little thing you need to do and there is no way I could try and attempt to convince you otherwise. If you aren't prepared for this then don't have kids. I have plenty of friends who have remained single and they are happy with their lives. They are also smart enough to realize that they just couldn't handle the responsibilities that having children would add. And if they call my wife and I up to do something and we have to cancel at the last minute because our son came down with a bad ear infection at daycare, they don't bitch us out or tell us what awful friends we have become.

When I chose to have a child I also chose adjusting my lifestyle. This means seeing less of my friends, readjusting my own personal time, and sacrificing doing SOME of the things I used to do. This doesn't make me a bad friend, or a bad person. It makes me a good parent.

[STLantny]

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I may have sounded harsh, but I really dont give a [censored]. I tottally understand putting your family in front of friends, I have no problem with that. But my particular friends, do not do anything, ever. They dont go out, ever, etc. And the only time I receive a call (I stopped calling them a long time ago), is when they need help with something, like sodding their lawn, or painting or something like that. I could tottally understand, if they called maybe once every month, just to see how [censored] is going etc, but they stopped that the second they got married. And these were really godd friends, that I rented a house with for 2 years etc. I just figured thats how everyone reacted when they got pusswhipped.
And you douche bags can call me a selfish jackass all you want, but Im not the one who decided to cut all ties to the outside world, because I have to focus on a relationship. I am not asking to go out and chase tail 5 nights a week, but hell, at least make 1 night a month to go out to a bar or a ball game etc.

BTW, most of my friends dont have kids, they just got married.

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Waaaaaaah. My friends had kids and won't play with me anymore. Waaaaaaaaah.

Dude, grow up. Move out of your parents' basement. Stop going to Star Trek conventions. Meet a girl.

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See thats my point, people like you, are so [censored] up in the head that you have to have a relationship to validate your life. I dont. I have lots of girlfriends, have sex with a lot of girls, and am on good terms with them. Othert than a couple of my really good friends basically ditching me, my life is great. I dont need some type of co-dependent relatinship to prove to the world Im not a fuckup like you. If you have ever seen the commercial where the guy calls his wife, and the Milwaukee Beast falls on his head, that the caricature that I view of people like you.

[PhatTBoll]

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I think you should be allowed to have kids as long as you can aford them. Once you ak the State to help out (Welfare, etc.) the child/children get taken away from you and placed in wealthy barren couple's home.

[img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

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I say we just take this to the next logical step and subject everyone who pays no income tax to compulsory sterilization.