Raise or fold theory

[soko]

Why do you only raise or fold with hands like A9o, what's wrong with calling?

[trumpman84]

The problem with calling with it is that calling encourages the pot to be multiways and A9o doesn't play well multi-way because it's hard for it to make a very strong hand..often you'll end up with a pair, which is often not enough in multi-way pot and you'll lose some money with it, whereas if you make a pair/no draw with a hand like 67s, you probably won't much if any money.

Also, we fold it from early position because its not likely we have the best hand, but if it's folded to us in late position, like the cutoff or the button, chances are very high that it's the best hand remain and we raise it to take the pot...hence, raise or fold.

[Xhad]

Two reasons:

-Some hands are so bad that they need bluff equity/fold equity to be profitable. A9o is such a hand; you're mostly stealing the blinds, but with a hand that can still make a decent hand if it gets called.
-Some hands play so much better shorthanded than multiway that you have to try to narrow the field with them. A9o doesn't want more than two opponents, preferably one.

[winky51]

Raising also saves money later in the round many times. You raise now to lose less later when your behind. Imagine if you limp in the CO 1st in, the BB raises you call of course. Now the flop comes with an ace. You have no information and this person will just keep betting. You call down for 5 small bets and lose to AK.

Now lets say you raise preflop and he reraises. Flop comes with an ace and he bets now you raise, he 3 bets you call. No improvement you fold the turn.

Here you lost 1 extra preflop and 3 on the flop. 4 total not 5 because you raised.

I hate calling. I hate calling JTs, KJs in EP. Just calling OOP os like walking with your eyes closed if its raised behind you.

[Xhad]

That's a really bad way to play a flopped pair of A's, 9 kicker, heads up you know. Do a search in the micros forum on "WA/WB".

Seizing the iniative with a hand has value against bad players.

Raising a hand preflop is a kind of semi bluff that has folding equity inherently.

All poker hands have 'favourite environments' where their equity is strongest; A9o's happens to be heads up.

And in the case of A9o, in the right situation, calling is probably correct, but raising is probably better (eg; you are playing in an incredibly loose game where 9/10 players call with essentially random hands; A9 is definately playable otb since it has equity in this situation; but then you should be raising it for value anyway).

[Xhad]

[ QUOTE ]
And in the case of A9o, in the right situation, calling is probably correct, but raising is probably better (eg; you are playing in an incredibly loose game where 9/10 players call with essentially random hands; A9 is definately playable otb since it has equity in this situation; but then you should be raising it for value anyway).

[/ QUOTE ]

Ugh. No. If six people limp in and you have A9o you should FOLD; your pf equity is very small and your postflop advantage is nil; you have to play TPNK like a scared little girl, but you're in a big pot so you may also be forced to "protection raise" a loser, a pair of 9's is easily drawn out on, and you'll rarely make a well-concealed monster to get paid off with.

See: TOP and HEFAP, "Reverse Implied Odds".

[wdcbooks]

You raise because you want to buy the presumption that you have the best hand. You get the initiative and you get to decide when bets go into the pot.

Imagine you raise from the CO with KJo. The big blind decides to just call with KQo. You are dominated and ostensibly in deep trouble. In reality you are likely the favorite to win the hand. Much of the time no one flops a pair or strong draw. Against an average opponent your raise, and the initiative you take postflop will take down the pot.

This advantage diminishes as you move up in limits. Players do a lot more thinking about your range of hands and are a lot more aggressive in testing you. At lower limits though it is more often a fit or fold situation and the aggressor takes it down. Even at high limits the BB in our theoretical hand might assign you a range of any ace, and two broadway, and any pair. They are behind a majority of those hands and thus might fold when they miss.

very well said by earlier posters!

it makes sense. you don't want to play it early at all. and playing it late, you want very few callers so why not raise to possibly steal pot?

[ohnonotthat]

"A9/o playable against 8-9 random hands" ?

- Yes, absolutely.



"Should be raising it for value" ?

- No, never.