Two Plus Two Older Archives  

Go Back   Two Plus Two Older Archives > Tournament Poker > One-table Tournaments

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11  
Old 12-15-2005, 08:02 AM
Gigabet Gigabet is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Iowa
Posts: 60
Default Re: Hand from Bellagio 5 diamond

[ QUOTE ]
she would have to ping you on damn near exactly KK

[/ QUOTE ]

No, remember, that I had stated earlier that she had known that I frequently would get out of line preflop, for me to be holding two random cards in that spot is definitely something that I knew that she could recognize. In our past pots together, the hands that she had taken down, she took with no contest, after I had given up after taking one stab. Obviously, these hands it was obvious that I had two random cards, and just missed the board, which became apparent after she bet and I instantly folded, I don't waste time trying to make people think that I could call their bet, as some do after taking a stab and then folding. I just instantly fold. I am in enough pots where it is clear that it is unlikely for me to be holding a premium hand, at any given time, so trying to act as if I might call has no benefits, it isn't going to cause people to play back at me less. These people are not idiots, they know that I am stealing, and I don't even try and convince them otherwise...I just say something like, "your lucky I raised/bet with trash," and fold. So in the hand above, if I don't think that she cannot extend her read of my range of hands to include a six, would make this whole line ridiculous for me to play.

She was there when I doubled through Patrick with 75, and she was also there when I busted Joe Seebok with 86 in a raised pot. And we had talked about these hands as well, so I had a very good idea of what level of thinking she was on, in any given situation.
  #12  
Old 12-15-2005, 08:25 AM
raptor517 raptor517 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 7
Default Re: Hand from Bellagio 5 diamond

fair enough. given the information you have now detailed out, i really like the way you played the hand. sure had to pry to get ya to talk about it a bit [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] good luck in the tournament. im curious though, how did raja play, i noticed he busted around 40thish, and i havent had a chance to talk to him since the end of day one. holla
  #13  
Old 12-15-2005, 08:33 AM
GimmeDaWatch GimmeDaWatch is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 6
Default Re: Hand from Bellagio 5 diamond

Gig, whatever conjecture may be brought up about this hand, that obviously took alot of balls, so here here. Anyway, what were your thoughts about the tiny underbet on the flop? This would be a really strange bet from my perspective w/QQ-TT/AQ-AJ as she wouldnt want to induce a call or show too much weakness. I suppose she could figure you to be drawing nearly dead as well if she had AA/AK but still, it looks a little fishy. Kind of reminds me of the "please play back at me" thing David Williams pulled in the WSOP final table against Matt Dean. I remember watching the hand play out live on Stars, and thinking his small re-raise from the blind was bizarre in that it would never get anyone to fold, and then he bets tiny on the flop and induces Dean to move in w/AT against his AA. The two hands are obviously not the same, just curious if you had any thoughts on it at the time.
  #14  
Old 12-15-2005, 10:15 AM
Seadood228 Seadood228 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 5
Default Re: Hand from Bellagio 5 diamond

I think you are right about her folding all but the top two hands given how she played previously, and her line looks very much like AA,AK,KK and maybe TT-QQ. Only one of those hands should be scary, and unfortunately you ran into it.

This is one of those situations where I could make the same read, and but never have the balls to make such a play. That alone deserves a lot of credit.
  #15  
Old 12-15-2005, 10:19 AM
Seadood228 Seadood228 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 5
Default Re: Hand from Bellagio 5 diamond

I think the retards will think he looks retarded. I think the rest of the table fears him after this hand, if he has a decent amount of chips left.

If he tabled AK instead of AQ, then maybe he looks retarded [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
  #16  
Old 12-15-2005, 02:58 PM
Irieguy Irieguy is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 340
Default Re: Hand from Bellagio 5 diamond

You are making this play because of your level of confidence in JJ's ability to make a mistake (ie, folding the best hand on the river.)

But, there is another mistake she is capable of making; tipping off the strength of her hand when she has a non-foldable monster.

Your line makes it very hard for her to call the river with anything less than KK,66, or A6... but is there a line that would make it just as hard for her to call the river, but easier for you to tell that she's pat?

Your description of her earlier play leads me to think that she could make a mistake on the flop with a nut hand, and is unlikely to try and take the pot there with a hand she would later abandon.

I like the flop check, because the whole point of this hand is to get her to put some money into the pot and then fold at the end. But I would have been inclined to check-raise the flop and lead the turn.

That line really isn't any weaker than the line you took, but it gives her an opportunity to make a mistake and disclose her strength on the flop. Since you really aren't worried about her pushing with a hand that she would fold on the river with (are you?), I would prefer that line as it allows me to save 500,000-700,000 chips the few times that she really has it.

What makes me even more inclined to c/r the flop is the very distinct possibility that she could have AK and wouldn't be able to lay it down on the end. She would definitely telegraph this on the flop and give me a chance to give up.

I think I want to be able to have a chance to give up on this hand considering the relative chip stacks this late in the event. I really wouldn't want to give it all away without at least a chance to uncover my fate if I'm running into something bad.

Irieguy
  #17  
Old 12-15-2005, 03:10 PM
Roman Roman is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 384
Default Re: Hand from Bellagio 5 diamond

Given your read of the situation, which I will assume is accurate (it sounds reasonable enough), I really like the way you played this hand. You built up a really big pot for yourself and made the type of bet where she would need near-nuts to call. Sucks that you ran into a monster, but it happens.

The only other factor that I would consider is that this bluff if fairly risky considering she often has a really strong hand when she makes it to the river here. How easily where you accumulating chips from the other players? I am not sure the risk of running into a monster at the expense of your stack was worth it if you had an otherwise soft table. Losing this pot left you with much less room to play, you can't really make too many plays that don't risk too much of your stack anymore.

This play would be much much better if either she had less or you had more chips, where losing it would leave still leave you with a deep stack.
  #18  
Old 12-15-2005, 03:24 PM
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Hand from Bellagio 5 diamond

I like the idea about the hand, but there are a couple of things I find problematic. First, you don't mention looking for any reads on the given hand. It seems that you arbitrarily decided "this" would be the hand for you to make a move. Also, is this the best board for that play? The pair on the flop may scare her, but it's not nearly as bad as a 4458 board or something like that. Do you think she's more inclined to fold because of the relatively tame looking flop? That's certainly a possobility. For the most part I like the idea of using your knowledge to make a well-thought out play, but have to wonder (especially knowing the result) if you were careful enough to choose the best possible time.
  #19  
Old 12-15-2005, 04:30 PM
citanul citanul is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 64
Default Re: Hand from Bellagio 5 diamond

in an effort to try to get the discussions concentrated, as this hand is now being discussed in at least 3 forums, let's try to hook this up to the mtt forum thread on the same hand:
Link

citanul
Closed Thread

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:29 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.