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  #21  
Old 11-28-2005, 02:42 PM
SonnyJay SonnyJay is offline
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Default Re: Do you think this is a bluff?

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The more I think about it the more I prefer calling to going allin. Bet the turn if he checks though.

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What do you do if you call the flop bet, and villain pushes the turn with his remaining t450ish?

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Um, I call.

-SonnyJay
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  #22  
Old 11-28-2005, 02:46 PM
tigerite tigerite is offline
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Default Re: Do you think this is a bluff?

Agreed with citanul. I also think he will call a T, JJ or QQ if you push.. but probably fold most everything else. So for this reason I reckon a call might just be better.. I don't think either pushing or calling is bad though.
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  #23  
Old 11-28-2005, 02:58 PM
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Default Re: Do you think this is a bluff?

I really hope this is not a serious question.

Just in case it is the answer is call. The whole point of calling the flop is to induce the turn bluff, not to induce the bluff, then fold to the bluff and hand villain 500 more chips, duh. If you're going to fold then fold the flop but as I said already I hate folding.
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  #24  
Old 11-28-2005, 03:16 PM
Scuba Chuck Scuba Chuck is offline
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Default Re: Do you think this is a bluff?

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i don't think it's a bluff. i think that you are ahead of his range though.

c

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OK, this is what was on my mind. Cit, you said it succinctly. I guess, I would be more concerned about a check than a bet here. But, in general, why are you saying this?
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  #25  
Old 11-28-2005, 03:27 PM
The Yugoslavian The Yugoslavian is offline
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Default Re: Do you think this is a bluff?

Something curtains might say here:

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Folding would be huge outrage.


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And when asked why his next post would be some semi-coherent ramblings:

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So ok the players are so bad. He could have anything here. Folding would be such a ridiculous mistake given the size of the flop pot. ok, I can see calling maybe but really you should just push, it doesn't really matter. but if anyone thinks you should fold here they will never be WORLD CHAMPION like myself.


[/ QUOTE ]

Yugoslav
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  #26  
Old 11-28-2005, 03:31 PM
citanul citanul is offline
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Default Re: Do you think this is a bluff?

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i don't think it's a bluff. i think that you are ahead of his range though.

c

[/ QUOTE ]

OK, this is what was on my mind. Cit, you said it succinctly. I guess, I would be more concerned about a check than a bet here. But, in general, why are you saying this?

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i think you know why i'm saying it.

i'd be more concerned with a check than a bet (though at the 22s i really don't honestly know).

the odds he has an ace are lower since there are two on the board.

etc etc all that stuff

but when i say i don't think it's a bluff i think that he means his bet to be for value, so i think he has something like: some ace, some pair, any T, king high, possibly Q high, maybe some other stuff thrown in there. if there's a flush draw on the board, which i can't remember any more, it could be that too. so i mean, his range probably has fewer outright 9 highs or whatever, and more stuff that is feasably valuebettable here. i'd expect this to be like the range above, not a bluff, but something you're ahead of by a bunch.

c
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  #27  
Old 11-28-2005, 03:43 PM
Scuba Chuck Scuba Chuck is offline
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Default Re: Do you think this is a bluff?

OK, I thought we were ahead here too. At the time, I did not think about how to best play this. I was too stunned by the bet/situation, that I thought about it too long, and I just called. In reflection, I realize now that this is the best move. As pushing gives our villain a reason to fold. Calling gives our villain an opportunity to fire his remaining stack on the turn.

My reason for posting is that I'm starting to get a feel for some really strange situations lately, and am starting to get a better sense at really following my read. I'll post another hand in a moment as an example. I just don't think an ace bets this way here.

For those that are interested, here's how it played out. Results in white if you care.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t150 (8 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Button (t515)
SB (t1405) <font color="white"> SB has Jd Kh </font>
BB (t630)
UTG (t485)
Hero (t1540)
MP1 (t1225)
MP2 (t825)
CO (t1375)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t450</font>, <font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, SB calls t375, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>.

Flop: (t1050) A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets t500</font>, Hero calls t500.

Turn: (t2050) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
SB bets t455 (allin), Hero calls t455.

River: (t2505) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>

Final Pot: t2505
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  #28  
Old 11-28-2005, 03:43 PM
tigerite tigerite is offline
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Default Re: Do you think this is a bluff?

You forgot the white bit. I think he probably has KT.
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  #29  
Old 11-28-2005, 03:46 PM
Scuba Chuck Scuba Chuck is offline
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Default Re: Do you think this is a bluff?

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You forgot the white bit. I think he probably has KT.

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LOL, look further.
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  #30  
Old 11-28-2005, 03:46 PM
citanul citanul is offline
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Default Re: Do you think this is a bluff?

i don't think there's much difference between calling and pushing on the flop, if there is, it probably slants slightly to calling, as you did. and yeah, you did forget the results.
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