ok think carefully about this one and then answer

[mike l.]

me and gabe totally disagreed about the turn decision on this hand i sweated him on via cell phone.

great 20-40 live game. he had A5o and openraised in the cutoff, bb who he describes as awful loose aggressive and dumb, reraises, gabe calls.

the flop is K52 rainbow. check, check.

now here's the part we disagreed on: the turn is a 3. bb bets. according to gabe this could be a wide range of hands he's betting here since the flop checking induced the bb to bet the turn, so let's take that as a given. in other words it could be things like JT, QT, pair of kings, pocket kings, other pocket pairs, A high hands, other big made hands, other mediocre made hands, draws, etc, etc. gabe also said that the guy would bluff w/ a lot of those bluff hands on the river if he missed and gabe just called the turn. also he would fold a lot of his more hopeless seeming bluffs (things like QT) on the turn if gabe raises. there are definitely some hands (like 99, etc, okay made hands) that bb will call a turn raise with and then check the river with, but he may check the river with if gabe flat calls the river. it should be pretty clear which way i leaned by what ive said. so what should gabe do and what should his plans be for the rest of the hand?

[Turning Stone Pro]

I'm currently on a 100 BB downturn and just broke up with my girlfriend, so I'm not in the mood to think much and apologize in advance.

However, I can't get past the flop. Why check? I think you are at least better than even money to be ahead, and have lost control of the pot. The result? No clue as to what to do on the turn because, as you mention, he could have literally anything at this point.

TSP

[etizzle]

He should call. The player you described will probably fire again on the river with the JT QJ and such hands, and will reraise the turn with his monsters if you raise it. And he will not fold any mid pocket pair.

So i think a call is in order. You make the same when ahead, and lose the least when behind.

[LarsVegas]

The problem with the call is that you lose a decent pot one out of seven when he is bluffing with QT, QJ or JT.

lars

[Legian]

I prefer to do my value-bet thing here and now and raise so I can check/check the river in good conscience if I don't improve.

Legian

[etizzle]

yeah but the fact that he gains the extra BB every time he just calls the turn (and the BB misses) makes it break even wether or not to raise if BB has QJ.

If BB will check/fold the river with QJ after missing, a raise is in order. But i think this player will fire again.

[bobbyi]

The most interesting part of this post was the concept of sweating someone via cell phone. Can you explain how this works? Did he have you on the line the whole time and say things like "Hey, Mike, an awful loose aggressive and dumb guy just reraised my A5o from the big blind. The dealers about to bring the flop". ?

[mike l.]

no he gave me the details after the hand went down. i was on hold and giggling loudly as i normally do when i hear gabe say "raise". hysterical stuff. then i ask "did you win?" and he says "no" and we go back to him listening to me go on like a broken record about how awful a player i am.

hysterical stuff.

[andyfox]

To me, the key thing is to give me the best possible chance of winning the pot. So I'd raise the turn so that he'd have the chance to either fold or check to me on the river. Since he could have anything including a set of kings, jack high, and everything in between, I'd consider my hand from a value perspective and second pair with top kicker would be enough for a raise too.

[Schneids]

Why would an awful playing loose aggressive guy 3-bet PF and then check the flop HU? Doesn't that usually spell trouble?

If this is a spot where Gabe can confidently fold to a 3-bet if raised (despite this guy's aggressiveness) then yes raise on the turn. If that confidence doesn't exist then call down and hope to catch the guy on a bluff with high-cards.