The thin line between...

[wegs the wegs]

donk and shark. I've thought about this hand all night and I can't decide if this guy was great, or horribly lucky. And I can't tell if my play was smart, or fish-like. I lost the hand, but I'm just shocked by his holding.

Absolute .50/1 9 handed
Hero $225
Villian $80
MP+1 $35

Hero is dealt A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] in the BB.
Folded to MP+1 who limps, Villian in CO limps, 2 folds, Hero raises to $4, two calls.

Flop is J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]T [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]4 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
Pot is $12.50
Hero bets $11, MP+2 calls, Villian calls.

Turn is 2 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
Pot is $45.50
Hero bets $20, MP+2 calls (all-in), Villian pushes making it $45 for me to call. I call.

River is a 7 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

Hero shows A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] for pair of jacks.
MP+2 shows Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] for pair of jacks
Villian shows K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] for pair of kings.

Villian takes down the $195.50 pot.


Now I feel like I didn't really do much wrong here but I figure it's kinda hard to lose $100 on a hand and not have something go wrong. Villian and MP+2 were playing tight/passive poker, both for about 30 hands or so. His slowplay of KK for three times of betting is something that I rarely see at the cash tables.

So my question is this. Was his play awful? Was my play awful? Both plays great? Both plays standard? I just can't decide. Decide for me.

[jkkkk]

I don't like pushing mediocre hands like TPTK against passive idiots like so. I also hate villains play here, its tricky, but stupid.

[gulebjorn]

Villain was lucky in the sense that he let everyone in on the flop for free, but nobody improved to beat his hand. But then again, facing two opponents isn't that bad when you're holding KK.

He managed to disguise his hand very good. Was he lucky? Well, no Ace fell on the flop, but since it's more likely for no ace to fall than for an ace to fall, it could be argued that you would be lucky if you paired your Ace.

If it makes you feel any better, after you raise PF, I don't think you could have avoided this. I don't raise AJs from BB, but that can be discussed.

Flop bet looks fine, I might bet the turn a little harder. When he raises, you can't turn down those pot odds with your TPTK and nut flush draw.

After thinking this through, I'm starting to like his play. Sure, he dodged a lot of bullets with the overcard/flush/straight draws out there, but it paid off big. And when a scare card hits, he might just give it up...

So conclusion: your play = standard except for PF raise
his play = great subject: the thin line between...

[wegs the wegs]

Well from their styles of play from what I had observed TPTK is the best hand here the majority of the time. With two callers on the flop, I would normally slow down on the turn, however it was a club giving me the nut flush draw. I was half semi/bluffing half betting for value if that makes any sense. I really really did not expect the push from the Villian. But with TPTK and the nut draw I had to call.

[wegs the wegs]

Typically with AJs I won't raise from the BB either. And I hate to keep using this as my defense but with their style of play I assumed that AJs was the best here, and the two limpers would be easy to shake off either preflop or on the flop with a continuation bet. Based on the reads of these players I really think that raising preflop was the correct play.

[gulebjorn]

[ QUOTE ]
I would normally slow down on the turn, however it was a club giving me the nut flush draw.

[/ QUOTE ]

IMO, a heart or diamond turn that doesn't complete a straight draw would be a good reason to bet this turn even harder. You can't let them see a cheap river in case they are holding a flush/straight draw. All that beats you here is JT or a set. And JT is pretty unlikely to call your PF raise, plus there's only two jacks left in the deck. So in short, all you are afraid of is a set on a blank turn. So make them pay.

When the club hits, I might push.

[gulebjorn]

[ QUOTE ]
Typically with AJs I won't raise from the BB either. And I hate to keep using this as my defense but with their style of play I assumed that AJs was the best here, and the two limpers would be easy to shake off either preflop or on the flop with a continuation bet. Based on the reads of these players I really think that raising preflop was the correct play.

[/ QUOTE ]

As I said: the PF raise was open to discussion. Stick with your reads, so I'll go along that this was correct. So the way this was played, you were destined to lose a lot of money here. Don't think anyone could get away from this at any point.

[swolfe]

i don't raise that hand from early. take a flop with it...

other than that, i think it looks good. i would occassionally check-raise all-in on the turn.

notice that if you hadn't raised preflop, your stacks probably would have been deep enough for you to be able to get away. not that you necessarily would have, but it would leave the door open. it's always good to have an exit strategy.

[pmuir10]

slowplaying overpairs like they are the nuts usually means hes a donk

[amoeba]

raising preflop from BB with AJ is fine but make it bigger.

with two limpers at least $6, preferably $8.