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#1
10-22-2004, 05:08 AM
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The Failure Of Logic
A man is busy looting a house, in the night, when the householder comes down from his bedroom and confronts him. The householder is armed and a struggle ensues. The burglar kills the householder. The wife and child of the householder come downstairs and stare horrified at the burglar.
This occurs in a US state which executes for felony murder. What is the logical thing for the burglar to do? It is to kill both mother and child in order to facilitate his escape and minimize his chance of capture. You cannot be executed twice and once the burglar has killed the householder in the heat of the moment then the coldblooded killing of mother and child becomes a necessity. So much for logic, you followers of logic. 
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#3
10-22-2004, 06:22 AM
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Re: The Failure Of Logic
I don't see the logic problem here. If the man has no objection to killing and wants to maximise his survival chances then killing the wife and child is the way to go.
What's your point? chez
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#4
10-22-2004, 08:27 AM
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Re: The Failure Of Logic
Killing the mother and children is most certainly the +EV play here.
And it's not even close. Do you see why? Barron Vangor Toth www.BarronVangorToth.com
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#5
10-22-2004, 08:44 AM
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Re: The Failure Of Logic
He could just flee the country. There is no problem with the logic here. If he truly is a cold blooded murderer he'll kill them - if it was a robbery gone terribly wrong where he had no initial intention of killing anyone then he does a runner.
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#6
10-22-2004, 10:03 AM
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Re: The Failure Of Logic
is this a murder case or a robbery and self defense case?
for some reason im under the impression homeowners dont have the right to simply shoot burglars just because they broke into a house, they must make efforts to avoid the burglar and use deadly force only if their lives are in danger, deadly force is not accpetable to protect property. the way the court systems seem to be these days, i would think he would be ok to just leave without killing any more people.
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#7
10-22-2004, 10:12 AM
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Re: The Failure Of Logic
[ QUOTE ]
Do you think this shows that logic is flawed or that the system is flawed? [/ QUOTE ] The thought experiment I presented was to show that those who are in love with logic (and opposed to religion) should not be so smug because logic can lead to all sorts of terrible consequences. Hitler was a logician of the finest order. His logic shocked the world.
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#8
10-22-2004, 10:14 AM
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Re: The Failure Of Logic
I am not presenting it as such a case. I am presenting it as a scenario where a death resulting from the commission of a crime leads to execution.
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#9
10-22-2004, 10:39 AM
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Re: The Failure Of Logic
[ QUOTE ]
The thought experiment I presented was to show that those who are in love with logic (and opposed to religion) should not be so smug because logic can lead to all sorts of terrible consequences. Hitler was a logician of the finest order. His logic shocked the world. [/ QUOTE ] Hitler was not a logician of any order, let alone the highest. ... and the terrible consequences in your thought experiment are not caused by logic. chez
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#10
10-22-2004, 10:42 AM
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Re: The Failure Of Logic
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Do you think this shows that logic is flawed or that the system is flawed? [/ QUOTE ] The thought experiment I presented was to show that those who are in love with logic (and opposed to religion) should not be so smug because logic can lead to all sorts of terrible consequences. [/ QUOTE ] Yes, it can. So can electricity, automobiles, fire, and any number of things that are highly important to humanity. Anything can be misused, often with tragic consequences. And actually, the burglar failed in a logical sense by choosing crime over being a productive member of society. Had he taken the long view, and been willing to put in the effort to make an honest living, he would never have been confronted by the choice you posit (which has indeed been played out many times in real life). [ QUOTE ] Hitler was a logician of the finest order. His logic shocked the world. [/ QUOTE ] Perhaps. But if you read his writings, you'll also find that he was a religious fruitcake. He used God to justify everything he did, as many religious people do. My problem with religion is not its existence, but rather its followers trying to force it down everyone else's throats and, in some cases, using it to grab power and/or justify all manner of horror. I don't care what people believe, so long as they play nice and leave those of us who don't want it alone. There are many conceptions of God. Only one, at most, can be right. So far as I have seen, there is nothing that proves that one is right and the others wrong; similar arguments are made by adherents of different faiths, telling us that theirs is The Truth(tm). From that, I conclude that it is unlikely that any of them are. If God is just and benevolent, I don't see how he can demand that we figure out which version to believe in, and condemn us for eternity if we guess wrong. Because that's all it is, a guess. -Mike
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