Hold'em and friendly chat

[yenforyen]

I didn't do very well last night at my live 3/6 game and I think it was because I talked too much. I don't know what got into me. Normally, I don't go down to the card club to make friends. I usually focus on the game and don't share information about my game. If someone asks me about my hand I usually say with a smile "I forget."

I'm starting to be a regular at this club and don't want to be known as an unfriendly. It's not who I am normally. But last night I went overboard and I think gave up too much about my play. (I won with AK without a showdown, I folded pocket 8s etc.)

On the other hand I also learned some things about my opponent's game which I think helped me. For instance, when I started to talk about pot odds to a young guy to my left who I thought was a good player, he seemed not to have a clue what I was talking about.

Is there an advantage to being friendly in live games or is it best to be a poker fiend, focusing exclusively on the game? A mixture of the two? What do most 2+2ers do at a live game?

[Sloth]

I like to chat while playing to be friendly. I really try to stay out of hand discussions though. I don't educate at the table about pot odds, free cards, opening requirements, etc. I let the other players draw there own conclusions about my play.

I also say nice hand, sorry got lucky, etc to try to keep people happy and non-confrontational. Some people just need to have an "enemy" at the table. If you can identify their enemy you can play more hands with just them and their enemy, because they will be gunning for them and usually playing much worse cards, or overly aggressive.

I never explain why I raised, usually just say I had a feeling. I never deny being on tilt, or steaming. You get much more action if they think you are on tilt. Never, ever insult someone for the suck out of the century, never say keep "playing like that and Ill have all your money", etc.

If they ask if you had a specific hand, always say yes. It gives them more confidence about their "read" on you. If you decide to make it 3 bets with 79s on the button with 8 callers, don't explain why if you win the huge pot. They will only remember you 3 bet 79s, not your position or number of callers.

[bdypdx]

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Is there an advantage to being friendly in live games or is it best to be a poker fiend, focusing exclusively on the game? A mixture of the two? What do most 2+2ers do at a live game?

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I think being friendly is a good thing. On the other hand, I don't discuss strategy, my cards, or my game plan. I chat about the weather, scores, books, etc.... you know, normal chit chat.

Enjoy the game. Be a nice person. It's much better that way.

-bdy

[onegymrat]

Hi yenforyen,

The previous posters are right on. Remember that although you are there to make money, this is still a game. You need to enjoy it or else it wouldn't be much of a "game."

I enjoy talking to people in general. It makes my opponents more at ease, especially when I haven't played a hand for a several orbits. It also helps them to confide in me about how bad their luck is or whatever. This gives me a better clue on what hands they play or how experienced they are.

Talk all you want. But as previously mention, stay away from topics like what hand you held, how they should have played, pot odds or any type of lessons given at the table. Keep it very positive for them, and use "talk" to your advantage. If you seem unfriendly, the poorer players will not enjoy playing with you as much, and this increases their chance of leaving sooner.

[yenforyen]

Excellent advice. I especially like the "yes" when another player asks you if you had a certain hand.

I had an old guy sit down next to me recently who said that as of last October 20th he been playing at our card club for 57 years. "Yep, I was still in uniform then." I enjoyed talking to him so much I folded more than I might have. Overall, I've really liked the people I've met playing poker. It's just hard sometimes to play and chat at the same time. (I'm fairly new to the game.) Thanks again for the advice.

[Vehn]

Don't ever show your hands. Don't talk about a hand. If you want to talk don't talk about poker. Do not show your hands.

[harboral]

You have to go with what you are comfortable with as far as the talking goes. I am sometimes quiet, but much of the time, especially with women at the table I talk and also add info about why I am betting......it is all smokescreen, but I love to say things like "well, I need to get you out of the pot, so I'll bet a little" when I really want a call and so forth, this can be very beneficial. If you can say these things and get away with them for a while, you can develope a trust with the players. Then when you have a hand that you know is a winner - on the river - and it looks like no one will call- that's when to give them the "I've got the nuts, but I better bet something". If they call you down, great, if they fold - you show your hand. This works great for me for an hour or even longer sometimes, and if they trust you because you are a nice guy - man, can you manipulate them. As for knowing how to play, boy, I am as dumb as a brick as far as the other players know - I've never read a book, blame everything on luck etc..........I've had players actually be happy when I drag a pot. They don't mind losing to a nice (dumb) guy.

[LetsRock]

Agree with the other comments - friendly chatter is great for a table; getting involved in poker strategy discussions is bad for you.

It can be very hard to do, at least for me it is. I think it's pretty natural that we like to let the world know that we "know what we're doing", "I've studied this game and understand it" or other similar "show-off" tactics. Here's something I'm good at and I'm damn proud of it - look at me!

But that's the thing about poker - it's one of the few skills where it is actually to your detriment to "advertise" how much you know. In any other "profession" it is to your advantage to at least appear well educated and as good as there is. In poker, unless you're going to open a school, you'll lose lots of potential income if you "look" too good as people (who know even just a little about the game) will not want to play with you.

I try to play the "cool, I just got lucky" type. It's hard for me because I really hate the "lucky" types, but I try. I know I'm not fooling anyone "in the know" because my physical actions (card and chip handling) will give me away.

But I do try to avoid odds and strategy discussions during a game. Find some other common ground to yak about and keep the poker chatter to "nice hand" and "wow" and "dam - I can't believe I didn't hit my flush!" and you'll be better off.

[ML4L]

Hey yen,

For me, it generally depends on the texture of the table. If the table is kinda weak-tight, I usually try to make friends because I don't want my opponents to notice how much I'm bluffing and running them over. Also, if a table is already lively and friendly, I will usually try to fit in; sometimes it only takes one serious player to deaden a table... If the table is more serious and/or more aggressive, I usually just keep my mouth shut; I don't go out of my way to be friendly or chatty...

But, all else being equal, I think that it's better to come across as having a friendly, "carefree" image. Sklansky emphasizes this as well; you don't want your opponents to know how seriously you're taking the game, especially if they're just playing for recreation...

Hope this makes sense and helps.

ML4L

[andyfox]

It's possible to be friendly without talking about your play. If they ask you what you had, smile and say "the nuts" or "what do you think?" When they say something reasonable, reply, "that's right." Or steer the conversation around to something else (the weather, women, sports).

It's also possibly to be nice without being chatty. Don't slow-roll, don't complain, be helpful, etc.