gutshot with overs

Hero is BB with K-Qo. SB is unknown, UTG is only playing cards when there happen to be two of them in front of him. [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img] UTG calls, folded to SB who calls, hero raises, both call.

Flop: 9,10, 5 rainbow. SB bets, hero Raises (for the free card)

Standard?

[damaniac]

I don't know. I don't see a player like UTG ever folding a hand that would clean up your outs (maybe A high, preventing the occassional redraw when you hit a pair), so you are not getting any outs cleaned up. Then we don't knw much about SB, whether or not you get 3-bet very often or donked on the turn, whether he is FOS a lot of the time or not, etc. I probably do this sometimes and call others, but I think a lot depends on SB's range and likely response, which we know nothing of, so readless I vary it like I said.

[SNOWBALL138]

Hmmm. With this hand I'm not sure that any hands that UTG will fold are helping your chances much.

You would tend to raise if
(sb has whatever)
1. UTG will fold a hand like AK or K9
or
2. Whatever hands UTG will call a single bet with, he'll call a double bet with

The second situation in which you would raise is if
1. SB is bluffing and UTG will fold
or
2. SB is bluffing and UTG will let your K high win in a showdown
or
3. Sb will fold a better hand on the turn if you follow through

I think its close. I'm just calling here though. If the pot was bigger, I would raise the flop, and bet the turn UI unless UTG called in which case I would happily take my free card.

[BoxLiquid]

I would fold.


The pot is only 3 SB. Raising for a free card in this spot isn't worth it. You pay 2 SB to win 3. and you're probably the underdog right now. You're OOP and UTG might call your raise or even re-raise.

If you think UTG and SB will pay off your turn and river bets when you hit a Q,K, or J then it's worth a call.

If UTG plays any 2 cards you should raise when you're in the BB with KQo. SB probably completed his blind with junk so you probably have the best hand.

[sean c]

[ QUOTE ]
I would fold.


The pot is only 3 SB. Raising for a free card in this spot isn't worth it. You pay 2 SB to win 3. and you're probably the underdog right now. You're OOP and UTG might call your raise or even re-raise.

If you think UTG and SB will pay off your turn and river bets when you hit a Q,K, or J then it's worth a call.

If UTG plays any 2 cards you should raise when you're in the BB with KQo. SB probably completed his blind with junk so you probably have the best hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hi Box hero raised pre flop the pot is seven small bets. Folding with seven outs would be bad.

[BoxLiquid]

I misread the hand. Sorry. And I thought he has 10 outs?

[sean c]

[ QUOTE ]
I misread the hand. Sorry. And I thought he has 10 outs?

[/ QUOTE ]

You need to discount his overcards because of possible reverse domination and the fact that either a K or Q could complete a straight. So 4 for the gut shot and 3 for the overcards.

[krimson]

I would call the flop bet and bring UTG along to pay me off when I catch the J. It's not like he's folding anything we want him to fold anyways, so there is no point in making this an expensive draw.

[ QUOTE ]
I would call the flop bet and bring UTG along to pay me off when I catch the J. It's not like he's folding anything we want him to fold anyways, so there is no point in making this an expensive draw.

[/ QUOTE ]

Realistically though we're not getting 3 bet very often. SB is probably making a probing bet with a 9 or 10 or straight draw (or total bluff). Don't you think this play is worth it for free card value? If we call, odds will be enough that we must call a turn bet as well.

Although having just said this, if we fold UTG with the raise it might be a good idea to be betting back at SB if checked to on the turn to try get him to fold.

Guess it all depends on how frisky a mood we're in

[sean c]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I would call the flop bet and bring UTG along to pay me off when I catch the J. It's not like he's folding anything we want him to fold anyways, so there is no point in making this an expensive draw.

[/ QUOTE ]

Realistically though we're not getting 3 bet very often. SB is probably making a probing bet with a 9 or 10 or straight draw (or total bluff). Don't you think this play is worth it for free card value? If we call, odds will be enough that we must call a turn bet as well.

Although having just said this, if we fold UTG with the raise it might be a good idea to be betting back at SB if checked to on the turn to try get him to fold.

Guess it all depends on how frisky a mood we're in

[/ QUOTE ]

If you call utg may fold to the bet anyway. If you call sb could check the turn with a draw. If you think you must call a turn bet your giving yourself to many outs. I am not saying a flop raise is bad here just don't know if i agree with your reasoning.