Very Weird Line I took

[mks]

The flop check is sloppy. You're giving a free card to a ton of hands that can beat you while gaining very little value in that very few hands are going to catch up on the turn to make hands that will pay you off on the turn and river (8,9,10 are really the only such cards). If the guy has a 7 he's calling the flop anyway. As others have said, save this for AA/KK if you must.

As for the river, it looks like a 7 to me. You successfully made it look like you had nothing, but unfortunately you did it with hand that can't take much heat. I would fold. I don't think you're ahead often enough to make the call correct.

[cornell2005]

what was your plan if he c/r the turn?

why the turn underbet/river overbet combo?

[smartalecc5]

results?

[evanski]

Ill be the first to say that I think the flop check is fine. True, you are giving a cheap card to overcards, but theres not a whole lot of money in there anyways and you could get action later to make up for it. If nothing else, it mixes up your play and shows that not every flop check following a pfr means a missed ak. However, upon checking the flop, I think its necesarry to pot it on the turn. If you were going to use an underbet, the time for it was on the flop (which is a line I prefer to yours). On the river, I think its a very easy fold. Very few players are going to bluff raise here. If he thinks youre bluffing, and has a call-worthy hand (say 44), he will simply call you down, since reraising would be pointless. The only hand you beat is a resteal with nothing. Just my thoughts.

-Evan

[mks]

[ QUOTE ]
Ill be the first to say that I think the flop check is fine. True, you are giving a cheap card to overcards, but theres not a whole lot of money in there anyways and you could get action later to make up for it.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is faulty advice imo. If your opponent already has a pair, he's calling your flop bet anyway. The only way you get action is if a 8,9,T,J comes off and hits your opponent. But if one of those cards comes off (or another overcard that misses your opponent) and your opponent had A7,78,88,etc., you may have killed your action.

I guess if you think checking the flop is gonna convince your opponent to pay off big bets with ace high where he otherwise would have just folded the flop (apparently the poster thought it would), it has some value. But that's just not gonna happen that often.

I really don't like the check.

[theBruiser500]

"The flop check is sloppy"

IMO I play against him often enough that psychology and deception and mixing up my play becomes a huge part of the game so it's important to play many hands many different ways. I will often check behind here if I don't have a pocket pair so I want to give those hands some protection, also I set up a turn bet steal with those hands by playing JJ the same way.

[theBruiser500]

"Very few players are going to bluff raise here. If he thinks youre bluffing, and has a call-worthy hand (say 44), he will simply call you down, since reraising would be pointless. The only hand you beat is a resteal with nothing. Just my thoughts. "

Yeah, I think this is some important analysis I missed in the hand. On the turn when he calls he could have ace high, some pocket pair, a piece of the board, maybe 8T or 68 but that is the least likely hand just because so many limited combinations. On the river, he might bluffraise with a hand that has no showdown value like KJ but he wouldn't call the turn with that.

[theBruiser500]

"what was your plan if he c/r the turn?

why the turn underbet/river overbet combo? "

If he c/r the turn calldown of course. I think one of the purposes an underbet serves is to get more action in marginal situations where a pot size bet won't work. Like here, he isn't getting odds to call with two overcards but would fold to a pot size bet. He could play back at me with nothing, and it sets me up to make this bet when I do have nothing. Also, it sets up a river value bet against his possible ace high.

I might have choosen the wrong player to make this play against because he is probably less likely to pay me off with ace high than most, and he is less likely to try and put a play on me than most. Say this opponent is more loose, suspicious of me, and trickier, how does everyone like this line then?

[creedofhubris]

What is your plan if an overcard hits and opponent springs to life? I assume fold?

[BK_]

so basically you underbet the to induce a bluff. and:

[ QUOTE ]
Also, it sets up a river value bet against his possible ace high.

[/ QUOTE ]

but then you overbet the river. the turn underbet/river overbet line in attempts to get a call from a suspicious ace high seems too tricky. if your goal was to setup a thin value bet on the river, obviously checking the turn would also be better. but that doesnt allow you to induce a bluff raise on the turn. overall it seems like the two goals dont go that well together. if you really want to induce a move from a suspicious, active player, given that you checked behind the flop, i would check behind the turn also and call/bet the river.