Reraising with trash as Big Stack on the bubble

[MSUcougar]

A couple situations I've had come up recently... sorry I don't have the exact hand histories on this comp... these are $50+5's...

#1: Blinds 200/400
UTG: 1850
Button: 50 (yes, 50)
SB: 1100
BB: 7000 (ME)

Button in this hand has just folded his BB and SB and clearly is trying to back his way into the money. UTG has been pretty aggressive but I won a nice pot off him earlier to take a commanding lead and I've been pushing my big stack around.

I'm dealt 32s in BB and UTG raises to 900 (half his stack)... I decide to push figuring he can only really call with AA or KK given the Button's tiny stack. He quickly called with 88 and I proceeded to river a straight to bust him in 4th. He of course was very upset that I had made that play...


#2: Blinds 200/400
UTG: 750
Button: 1750
SB: 2750
BB: 4250 (ME)

Again I had been bullying the table, and this hand I made a similar reraise push on the SB's minraise with Q3o. In this hand I face much more risk if called, but again my thinking was that SB would need to have a premium holding to call me. He in fact quickly called with A6o [img]/images/graemlins/ooo.gif[/img] and won the hand.


Is my thinking correct that villain should fold all but premium holdings in these spots or should I just concede the BB and continue stealing on the next hand?

I know if the roles were reversed I'd be turbofolding 88 or A6o... Is this too aggressive or are my opponents just idiots?

[ChrisCo]

This is my alltime favorite move in SNG's. Nothing better than having your opponent put half his stack in only to fold with a good hand versus my trash. The majority of the time this works, just make sure to be making this play in the right situations against the right players. Your generally not going to be able to pull this off against a bunch of looseys in a small buy in.

There is a time and a place for this move. Because of stack sizes I think the first hand is a little to aggressive but the second hand is perfect bubble play. I'd be pushing with any two here everytime.

[RobGW]

[ QUOTE ]
Is my thinking correct that villain should fold all but premium holdings in these spots

[/ QUOTE ]

You are correct that they SHOULD fold anything but premium holdings but...Premium holdings mean different things to different people. Any A or PP is a premium holding to some people. You should also consider how often you have been stealing. Some people's egos get hurt when you steal too often and they turn into the table police.

[kyro]

Maybe UTG in the first hand is playing for first and doesn't really care to just make the money. If he got the impression you were pushing around the table, I probably play it the same way as him (except I push instead of raise/call). So in other words, I don't like Hand 1. Too much in the pot for him to fold.

[syka16]

hand 1... woah 88??? I probably wouldn't mess with this guy since he's not folding.

hand 2 is ok since you don't really expect to be called all that often. If you've been bullying ALOT, you should tighten up in that spot.

[MSUcougar]

[ QUOTE ]
hand 1... woah 88??? I probably wouldn't mess with this guy since he's not folding.

[/ QUOTE ]
ok wait, are you suggesting that UTG was correct to call with 88 in hand 1? I disagree with this... am I wrong?

He should've just pushed preflop, and I of course would've folded my 32...

[Sam T.]

[ QUOTE ]
Is my thinking correct that villain should fold all but premium holdings in these spots or should I just concede the BB and continue stealing on the next hand?


[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, and yes.

Should the villain be folding? Oh, hell yes. But I think that solid players tend to overestimate their opponents' level of awareness. (See, for example, the folks who play with me in the $10 tournaments justifying a marginal play with, "I have a tight image, and figured they'd respect my raise." Fellas, your image is a little disc if you're on Stars, and a scrawny guy in an ugly orange t-shirt if you're on Party.)

There has been some anecdotal evidence that calling standards on steals have been dropping a bit, so you may have to be a bit more selective in the trash you push.

In any case, there is no way a player is going to put in half his stack and fold, so I don't much like hand one.

On the min-raise I like it more. Maybe both villains were trapping. Very crafty players you have at the $50 level.

Sam

[syka16]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
hand 1... woah 88??? I probably wouldn't mess with this guy since he's not folding.

[/ QUOTE ]
ok wait, are you suggesting that UTG was correct to call with 88 in hand 1? I disagree with this... am I wrong?

He should've just pushed preflop, and I of course would've folded my 32...

[/ QUOTE ] fold 88.

[MSUcougar]

[ QUOTE ]
In any case, there is no way a player is going to put in half his stack and fold, so I don't much like hand one.

On the min-raise I like it more. Maybe both villains were trapping. Very crafty players you have at the $50 level.

[/ QUOTE ]
It seems like the only reason you WOULD raise only half your stack on hand 1 is so that you CAN fold to the big stack if he were to reraise you... otherwise, why would you not just shove it all in preflop?

Apparently I am overestimating my opponent's skill/judgement in these cases...

And trapping is what you do with AA or KK as a short stack here, not 88 or A6o... (in my opinion)

[pergesu]

[ QUOTE ]
And trapping is what you do with AA or KK as a short stack here, not 88 or A6o... (in my opinion)

[/ QUOTE ]
I played a tourney today where I pushed my KK, and this guy who had been talking a lot of [censored] said, "And now I've got him right where I want him." And callled me with QJo.

A trap means different things to different players...I like it when crappy players "trap" me.