A possible leak we don't really think about

[Dave D]

I'm wondering how often, in general, people here lay down high pocket pairs, QQ, KK, AA, (and also seperatly interesting) AK and AKs. I don't think there's an easy number to see this in PT, but in general I think I'm calling down with these hands too much, and I'm probably just not laying them down enough.

How often do you?

[cold_cash]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm wondering how often, in general, people here lay down high pocket pairs, QQ, KK, AA, (and also seperatly interesting) AK and AKs. I don't think there's an easy number to see this in PT, but in general I think I'm calling down with these hands too much, and I'm probably just not laying them down enough.

How often do you?

[/ QUOTE ]

It's usually correct to take these hands to showdown.

[jstewsmole]

The question is kind of vague.

It all depends on how many people are in the pot, how the action has been going, Pot odds, who the players are in the pot etc. But u probably know this already.

[Dave D]

What I'm saying is, there has to be a "perfect" number that you're supposed to call down with these hands, and I doubt it's 100% of the time. So I think it's possible than I'm doing this more than the ideal about of the time.

edit:

Basically the kind of response im looking for is something along the lines of

Over 20k hands when I had those hands I didn't fold 90% of the time.

[imported_leader]

[ QUOTE ]
What I'm saying is, there has to be a "perfect" number that you're supposed to call down with these hands, and I doubt it's 100% of the time. So I think it's possible than I'm less than ideal.

[/ QUOTE ]

For a long time, I folded these hands too much.

[Alpha13]

There probably is an ideal WTSD number for these hands but, like blind stats they will take a long time to converge (this is because these hands do not come often over even large sample so only a few hundred hands will not give any meaningful results) Your best bet is to simply learn when to toss them and when to call then down.

[oreogod]

You generally tie yourself to a showdown with these hands. Depending on the board and turn action.

[Dave D]

Generally the beggining player makes the mistake of folding these kinds of hands too often, this we all know, and we all know that its generally correct to call down.

What I'm saying is that perhaps the better players here are making the mistake of calling down *too much*, and there has to be an ideal (though it may take a while to converge) which is not 100%. I'm wondering what this number might be. Sure this isn't a huge leak, but over 10s or hundreds of thousands of hands it can add up to a lot.

[lil feller]

Firstly I think its incorrect to group put QQ in the same group as KK, and it's probably a little off to put KK in the same group as AA.

You're going to be folding QQ a lot of the time, especially in loose small/stakes games. You'll often be seeing flops with several opponents, who will often have some sort of A and K out against you, and they're going to out flop you about 1/2 the time. (if there's an A and a K out against you).

Usually the flop/turn action should tell you where you're at with QQ, but if you see the river card, paying off on the end can't be that big of a mistake.

KK is a little different, and survives showdowns MUCH easier than QQ. AA is sort of the same.

I also think your WSD% with these hand depends greatly on how you play them. If you back off at the first sign of aggression on a big bet street, and just go into call down mode, you're probably going to have a high WSD % (not necessarily a mistake, just likely). If you're the type of player who will 3 bet the turn with one pair, and then give up if you get 4 bet or messed with on the river, obviously you're going to be folding these hands more often.

In most online circumstances, where its easy for people to get nutty with just about anything (or in LA...), I tend to try and be the first to get 2 bets in on a big bet street, and call down after that. Making a bet/2bet sized mistake with these hands every once in a while isn't nearly as crippling as making a pot-sized mistake, which is what a lot of inexperienced "I wanna make a great laydown" players do.

lf