Handreading (from 2+2 table).

[Entity]

Bottomset is donking around a lot, raising hands he shouldn't and playing like a LAG postflop. I don't think he's playing terribly, though, with the exception of this hand. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

I've mostly been in line and am playing pretty seriously. I have donked a few times and done things like bluff-checkraises, but only when I thought it was +EV to do so. Obviously having to show my cards each time has led to changed perspectives on what I'm capable of doing postflop. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

8-handed. Bottomset opens from EP, folded to me in LP, I 3-bet, blinds fold, he calls.

Flop is 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. Bottomset checks, I bet, he calls.

Turn is the Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. He checks, I bet, he checkraises, I consider 3-betting but decide to raise a favorable river.

River is the 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. He bets, I raise, he 3-bets, I cap, he pauses and eventually calls.

Questions:

1) What do I have?
2) What does bottomset have?
3) If bottomset has the A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], how many bets should he go on the river? What do we think of his turn play?

[cold_cash]

I have to put you on QQ after the river play, but that might be giving you too much credit. I'm also not sure you play the turn the way you did with top set on this board. But, what the heck, QQ it is.

I think turn semi-bluff raises are pretty common at the 2+2 tables, even though I'm not a big fan of making them against aggressive opponents who will play back at you. Having said this, I'm guessing he's holding the A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. His other card could be almost anything, but I'll guess it's above a 9.

[Shillx]

Hmm I was gonna post a hand almost exactly like this. Bottomset should have something like AK/AJ/AT with the A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. It is a good play because you will fold a hand like T [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].

I don't really understand your play if you have QQ but I can't think of anything else for you. You certainly don't have a small flush...maybe you have the A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]?

Brad

[Francis]

You have QQ for a boat,

He has Ac Xc. His lightbulb goes on when you reraise him on the river, and it dawns on him that a flush might not win this hand...

[mmbt0ne]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">En réponse à:</font><hr />
but decide to raise a favorable river.

[/ QUOTE ]

So you obviously don't have a small flush. The only way that 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] is a favorable card is if you have a boat or better. I don't think you'd 3bet 22 preflop, but with position and a LAG raiser, it's much more likely. So, either you have 55 or QQ is my bet.

bottomset hit his flush on the turn, but he wasn't happy enough with that ragged flop to bet into you, so I don't think he has a high suited ace. He might have A-rag suited, but I'm leaning more towards something like KTs or KJs.

If I'm bottomset and I have the A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], and you cap, I might put in a 5-bet, but I doubt it. The way you smooth-called the turn check-raise and then are willing to cap the river, you obviously aren't scared of the flush.

[bozlax]

I'll bite:

1. You're holding 52s, obviously not [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
2. Bottomset has Ax[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
3. I think he's fine going to the mat on the river, since it's capped, with the nut flush.

[Entity]

Knowing that bottomset will bluff-checkraise this turn but can fold if his hand is hopeless (but that he'll continue bluffing if I flat call, especially on a non-club river), what do we think about not 3-betting QQ on the turn?

If I've got QQ I've got a monster here and I'd like to extract the most, with the full understanding that bottomset will be bluffing on this turn quite often, especially given his flop play. Comments?

Rob

[Entity]

Given the river play, asking you guys to guess bottomset's hand is absurd. I realize that now. I think given my read that bottomset is donking but may be trying some FPS-bluffraise moves is what led me to my turn play, but I'm not sure if it's correct.

(In white)

<font color="white"> He had 87o, no clubs, for a super duper two pair. </font>

Rob

[cold_cash]

Hopefully someone can do some of those "you win one bet when this happens...etc." things.

I actually don't mind the way you played this if you turned a full house. The turn raise will be a big club more often than not, and if you get lucky (like you apparently did), you can entice him into going to war on the river, even though he would be forced to call if you play back on the turn.

I think sacrificing that one bet on the turn will be okay if you think he'll barf chips all over you on the river if a club comes off. Either way I think you're winning at least one bet on the river.

[Shillx]

Yeah against someone who is willing to do that I like it. Basically you don't want to give him a chance to fold. But against someone who is more reasonable, I like putting in a 3rd bet on the turn since he will almost always have at least a big [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. So you get that 3rd turn bet while he is drawing dead and the river is just gravy if he makes a flush.