10/20: What the hell is this?! Part 2

Surfbullet · #1 09-14-2005, 12:38 PM

Villain is a 19/4/2 over 150 hands.

Party Poker 10/20 Hold'em (6 max, 3 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is Button with 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
Hero raises, 1 fold, BB calls.

Flop: (4.50 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, BB raises, Hero calls.

Turn: (4.25 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB bets, Hero calls.

River: (6.25 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks.

Final Pot: 6.25 BB

Surf

pfkaok · #2 09-14-2005, 01:01 PM

its really tough to put people on hands in these HU blind steal spots. if you only have 150 hands of stats on him and no read, then you're almost in the dark here since you'd need to know how he defends, and how he gets that 2 aggression factor (folding a lot or playing aggressively once he sees the flop)

with a 4 PFR I tend to think its probably from a lot of folding, and not from playing aggressively with medium strenght hands. even still, even the tighter players will play the strong draws fast, and this board has a lot of possibilities of OESD's flush draws, gutshot+backdoor flushes.

anyways, I tend to call the flop, and calldown all the way if things don't come down too bad... unless this player is known to be very passive in these spots, and never CR without at least a solid pair (but this is very rare in these HU spots)

MarkD · #3 09-14-2005, 01:03 PM

I'd be tempted to fold somewhere. Flop or turn. If the turn was something another card greater than 7 that does not pair the board I would fold for sure on the turn.

sthief09 · #4 09-14-2005, 01:11 PM

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I'd be tempted to fold somewhere. Flop or turn. If the turn was something another card greater than 7 that does not pair the board I would fold for sure on the turn.

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if you're going to fold the turn, shouldn't you just fold the flop?

MarkD · #5 09-14-2005, 01:16 PM

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I'd be tempted to fold somewhere. Flop or turn. If the turn was something another card greater than 7 that does not pair the board I would fold for sure on the turn.

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if you're going to fold the turn, shouldn't you just fold the flop?

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I'm sure tempted to, yes. I think the board pairing on the turn or an undercard to our pair would be enough for me to see the river though. I think another overcard on the turn just makes it way too likely we are beat to see a showdown but with the above factors calling the flop may be ok.

Surfbullet · #6 09-14-2005, 01:29 PM

[ QUOTE ]
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I'd be tempted to fold somewhere. Flop or turn. If the turn was something another card greater than 7 that does not pair the board I would fold for sure on the turn.

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if you're going to fold the turn, shouldn't you just fold the flop?

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I'm sure tempted to, yes. I think the board pairing on the turn or an undercard to our pair would be enough for me to see the river though. I think another overcard on the turn just makes it way too likely we are beat to see a showdown but with the above factors calling the flop may be ok.

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Yeah, another broadway card and I was folding - the turn was the safest I'd get besides a set card or a deuce.

Anyway, villain showed A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] and I still don't know what's going on at the 10/20.

Surf

wackjob · #7 09-14-2005, 01:59 PM

I think its one of my few weak spots, but I would fold the flop here. Even if villain is raising with a flush draw, he has an insane amount of outs to beat you added with the fact that any card on board has you beat, I think I can get away while the pot is still small. If this villain made a habit of doing this, I might have to change it up a bit.

MarkD · #8 09-14-2005, 03:47 PM

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I think its one of my few weak spots, but I would fold the flop here. Even if villain is raising with a flush draw, he has an insane amount of outs to beat you added with the fact that any card on board has you beat, I think I can get away while the pot is still small. If this villain made a habit of doing this, I might have to change it up a bit.

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I don't think that folding to this flop CR is a weak spot unless there is extremely good reason to suspect that CR means exactly nothing, ie. you need a really good history on this specific opponent.

I can still see calling the flop and folding the turn, as I mention above, but I don't think folding the flop is wrong and it's probably what I would do here.

Grisgra · #9 09-14-2005, 04:25 PM

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I can still see calling the flop and folding the turn, as I mention above, but I don't think folding the flop is wrong and it's probably what I would do here.

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The flop is coordinated enough that I think that the raise could just as easily be a flush draw or QJ as a pair. I'd probably peel, fold if a J or Q or A or spade fell. I'd also consider the Nate strategery of calling a turn bullet but folding to a river bullet.

3-handed I have a big problem with folding on the flop when I've got a pair or A-high.

Guy McSucker · #10 09-14-2005, 05:02 PM

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villain showed A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] and I still don't know what's going on at the 10/20.

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Isn't that a totally standard blind-defense line with a hand like AJ? Rather than reraise you preflop he decides to call and check-raise the flop autobet. The turn didn't change who's in front so he bets again hoping you have a worse ace or were peeling with whatever you were stealing with. Finally on the river he decides you'll bet more losing hands than you'll call so he opts to check-call. Seems like a very normal play to me.

Am I totally off base here? I pretty much suck at poker.

Guy.