89s -vs- AKs

[SycoFrogg]

Im pretty new to poker, playing nearly a year and I'm just barely starting to figure this game out, but the point of the post is this.

I was recently in a conversation with another player who had knocked my AKs out of a 125 buy-in tourny with 89s in EP.
I didn't actually call it a bad beat but I showed my disgust when he made trip nines on the river monstering my ace gained flop.

When asking why he would call me with that hand( I still had a reasonable stack left but the ante was eatting me up and I was cold for almost an hour.) he explained how 89s was an extremely strong hand and would always destroy AKs.
My arguement was if we went heads up and I continued to get AKs over and over and him his 89s that he'd lose he's chips fast because there is only 6 cards in the deck that could help him and only if mine never show, outside of making a striaght, flushes being the only thing 50-50.

Then I started thinking on how AKs could only be involved in a striaght together one way while 89s could in multiple ways. Though A makes the wheel 89s still has deffinitly more striaght potential.

I was just wondering if this might be true, like I said I'm still new and years experience is hardly anything to be prod of, anyways, any help?

AK is the better hand and you will come out ahead in the long run if you keep taking this bet.
AK is a 65.2% favorite AK vs. 89 (when all cards are same suit)ex AsKs 8s9s
AK is a 62.1% favorite AKs vs. 89s (when one hand is suited and the other hand is suited in a differnet suit) ex AsKs 8h9h

It doesn't matter if one has a higher probability of making a straight or any other hand. It only matters which hand has the highest probability to make the best hand.

[illegit]

When neither hand improves you win
When both hands improve you usually win
When his hand improves and yours doesn't he wins

The 'you wins' outnumber the 'he wins'.

[mikehildebrand]

If you are asking which hand I will take in the long run, I will take AK over 89s every time, however I do stand by your assessment that 89s is the better "drawing" hand.

Illegit had it perfectly though, your wins outweigh your losses, in the longrun, with AK. To get much extra value out of 89s it needs to be a multiway pot as well. Anyway, my 2 cents.

[SycoFrogg]

Yea, I just didn't know if there was some logic I was missing. Got beat by someone greener then me I suppose.

[ThinkQuick]

I still use twodimes.net to see the 'better hand' rankings in different situations. http://twodimes.net/poker/

[Gbob]

It should also be noted that suited connectors do better in a cash game than in a tournament. A hand like 89s is a hand where you want as many people in the pot as possible. Let's look at a sample hand.

8h 9h
Ad Ks
Kc Qd
Qc Qs

In this situation the Queens would win about 37% of the time, AK about 32% of the time and the 89s about 25% of the time. With 3 other people in the pot, you have good odds to begin with so it's not bad, right?

The difference in those hands is the size of the pot if you hit the flop. If the board is A27 rainbow, you can avoid throwing your money away if you hold the 89. Queens can even avoid the situation. If the flop, on the other hand, was Ah6h7d your odds improve while the AK finds it harder to get away from his hand.

In other words, a hand like 89 will not win as often, but it will win bigger pots. In a cash game they're the best hands to hold.

In a tournament, however, where you normally have only one or two people in the pot and most action happens pre-flop then a hand like 89s is not as good to hold.

So if your friend allways plays that hand in a tourney, he's mistaken. Better off with the AKos. In a cash game, I would much rather have the drawing hand that will make the most money.....in other words the 89 suited.

[Salva135]

Well, even in a cash game, you'd be an idiot to play 89s under the gun.

Tell your friend to wait until next time, when the flop comes out T J Q.

[Wacken]

Don't educate your opponents at the table !

It can have 2 effects:
-You actually educate people and make the game harder to win
-You make people note you and possibly respect you more. This is good when you are bluffing a lot, but most winning players play rather solid quality hands. The winnings come from the idiots that call you to the river with bad odds and those that cold call your raises with hands not good enough to do so. The more they respect you, the less they do this. (assuming you play low limits)

[ QUOTE ]
Don't educate your opponents at the table !

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a good example of why not. Frog's opponent gave some insight into strategy (even though it was incorrect). Frog now joins 2+2, improves his game 100-fold (no pun intended) and goes back and crushes the "teacher". Good for Frog, bad for 98s.