Caesars Palace 1-2: Deep stacks, Maniacal Bettor, 66 on a K,4,3 flop

[ajmargarine]

Push preflop the second time it comes to you after looking at villian and saying "I knew you were gonna raise".

Raise the turn. You may push him off of hands that beat you (higher pp's). Unless he has a King he folds or slows down and checks to you on the river. So it's likely you invest the same amount of $$$ in the hand as you would if you call, call; and you have the added benefit of possibly folding hands that beat you.

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Push preflop the second time it comes to you after looking at villian and saying "I knew you were gonna raise".

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I think playing for a set is more +EV than pushing preflop and making him fold. He might just call you with a coinfip. If you hit your set you're getting paid.

As the board fell I think you need to decide on the flop if you are going to call him down. Either fold on the flop or commit $200 to your 66 unimproved. I prefer a fold. If he has two overs you are flipping, and his betting pattern means nothing, so you aren't getting any information to put him on imporved trash versus unimproved trash. I think this play is only slightly +EV at best.

A better approach to this player is to wait for TPTK and raise flop, call reraise, call two more barrels.

[TheWorstPlayer]

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A better approach to this player is to wait for TPTK and raise flop, call reraise, call two more barrels.

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No it isn't. A better approach than this one would be to cut him a check for your stack directly and going to eat a piece of pizza.

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A better approach to this player is to wait for TPTK and raise flop, call reraise, call two more barrels.

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No it isn't. A better approach than this one would be to cut him a check for your stack directly and going to eat a piece of pizza.

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Eh? If you don't agree, it would be helpful if you actually explained why, both to me and my bankroll, because I regularly call down maniacs with TPTK.

My thoughts are based off of this hand:
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This guy was more than willing to back up his pre-flop raises with strong post-flop bets, raises, and re-raises. In one specific hand, he bet $20 into a ~$60 pot on the flop, an opponent check-raised him another $20. He re-raised $100 more. His opponent put him all-in. The guy folded, showing no hand and no draw (on a flop of A,Q,x).

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[TheWorstPlayer]

Hyper aggro guys get hands too. If you're backing TPTK with your stack every time you're going to lose your stack when he makes a hand. A better strategy is to play small pots with marginal hands and big pots with big hands.

[Isura]

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I think playing for a set is more +EV than pushing preflop and making him fold. He might just call you with a coinfip. If you hit your set you're getting paid.

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Lags rarely have hands good enough to pay you off with. The lag WANTs you to call for set value and check/fold when you miss.

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I think playing for a set is more +EV than pushing preflop and making him fold. He might just call you with a coinfip. If you hit your set you're getting paid.

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Lags rarely have hands good enough to pay you off with. The lag WANTs you to call for set value and check/fold when you miss.

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This guy isnt lag, hes a maniac ATM.
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So, he's hyper-aggressive, nearly impossible to intimidate, and enjoying himself while playing this way. But, he's not clueless. He's betting a lot. He'll make loose calls for sure. But, he's not calling huge bets with nothing.

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Second edit: OK maybe not quite ATM but you can get a good deal of money in when he raises you on the flop...

Third edit: I never said check/fold if you miss, I just do not advocate a push preflop.

[Dynasty]

I make so few strategy posts these days that I forgot to come back to this last night.

For the most part, I was playing this 66 hand for set value against and over-aggressive bettor and two other opponents, all of which would commit lots of chips to the pot with top pair given the table dynamics.

However, the K,4,3 flop gave me the unexpected second pair and I quickly found myself heads-up on the flop where folding second pair for a relatively small $20 bet is a serious mistake against this guy.

I'm not sure my flop call was correct. But, knowing this guy is capable of betting and then re-raising a raise with no hand often has to have the effect of putting the brakes on you from raising marginal hands like second pair of 66. The problem with just calling on the flop is, of course, he keeps firing on the turn just like he did.

In response to my opponent's $70 turn bet into a $117 pot, I did consider folding. But, that's how this guy has been picking up pot after pot against most players at the table. He's betting with nothing and players with "no hand" are folding. When this happens, you've got to redefine what "no hand" is. I don't think 66 on a K,4,3,K board is "no hand" anymore. So, I eliminated folding.

When considering raising, I thought of making it $200 (leaving me with about $185). In my opponent's eyes, that should make me pot committed and probably pot commited in fact. I'm not sure I wanted to be pot commited for all my chips. So, after about 15 seconds of thought, I made the $70 call.

After making the call, I decided not to watch the river card being dealt. My opponent hadn't been giving off much for tells other than acting goofy/over-aggressive so I didn't watch him either. I stimply stared striaght down to avoid giving away any information myself before he acted first on the river. That turned out to be a mistake.

As I was staring down, there was a mini-commotion at the table with comments like "Hold on!" and "Wait!" being said. Without me seeing it, my opponent had apparently checked and turned over his cards. When I looked up, his right arm was extended and his cards apparently face-up in hand or just turned back over. The dealer had his hand extended to block my view of his cards. So, I didn't see anything.

My opponent chekced again for me to see.

The river is: K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

Your play?

[/ QUOTE ] When I looked up, his right arm was extended and his cards apparently face-up in hand or just turned back over. The dealer had his hand extended to block my view of his cards. So, I didn't see anything.

My opponent chekced again for me to see.

The river is: K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

Your play?

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There is virtually no doubt now that your opponent does not have a K, given his two river checks and immediate desire to show it down. And he clearly has no monster hand. That doesn't mean that he does not have you beat, however.

You do not make it clear if villain was aware that you didn't see his hand. If villain thought you saw his hand as the rest of the table did, this is a pretty easy push. He will assume you saw his hand and you are trying to get more out of his worse hand. A push here forces him to fold an 8 or a higher PP.

If villain is aware you did not see his hand, um, push anyway? You have the luxury of knowing he has no monster, and is he going to risk getting nearly stacked with a marginal hand? Only if he senses that you're trying to buy it, but I still like the push.

Dynasty, I'd love to hear the results.