"Unions are Evil"

[slamdunkpro]

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Try and do a trade show at a detroit expo center. You are _forced_ to pay union scale wage to an electrician to screw in a light bulb.

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Try to do one in D.C.

You are not allowed to use any power tools to assemble your booth – including screw guns. If you are seen using a “power tool” you have to pay 3 hours of union scale ($65 per hour). If your booth needs electric service you have to pay a union electrician $250 to “wire it” (read plug it into the existing wall outlet) If you have something shipped in over 5 pounds it has to be received at the loading dock and “delivered” by the Teamsters ($150 minimum). Need to use the freight elevator? $250 for the union operator. The list goes on.

[Meech]

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You are not allowed to use any power tools to assemble your booth – including screw guns. If you are seen using a “power tool” you have to pay 3 hours of union scale ($65 per hour). If your booth needs electric service you have to pay a union electrician $250 to “wire it” (read plug it into the existing wall outlet) If you have something shipped in over 5 pounds it has to be received at the loading dock and “delivered” by the Teamsters ($150 minimum). Need to use the freight elevator? $250 for the union operator. The list goes on.

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Exact same scam in Detroit.

[whiskeytown]

definately related - I can't remember how but I remember how the candidate got shot with his family and how the former head of the union was convicted -

This may have been a small child of that parent union, and somehow they intertwined, but I don't recall completely how -

RB

[pokerdirty]

unions are evil

my 40K/year education is about to get [censored].

[Hamish McBagpipe]

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Also consider the fact that unions lose most certification fights.

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They lose certification fights because that although the NLR Act guarantees the right to organize for most workers, employerseffectively challenge union organizing through illegal and even legal methods. Unfair tactics are totally rampant simply because the government does not enforce its own rules. Threats of firing, threats of plant closures, closed door meetings are only a few of the general tactics used. The right to organize is thwarted.

Millions of workers would join unions if employers didn't use these tactics:

Employers that illegally fire at least one worker for union activity during organizing campaigns: 25%
Employers that hire consultants to help them fight union organizing drives: 75%
Employers that force employees to attend one-on-one anti-union meetings with managers: 78%
Employers that force employees to attend mandatory anti-union presentations: 92%
Companies that threaten to close the plant if the union wins the election: 51%

An amazing 20,000 workers a year are illegally fired or discriminated against for trying to form a union.

-Kenneth Roth, Unfair Advantage: Workers' Freedom of Association in the United States under International Human Rights Standards, Human Rights Watch. Testimony before the Senate Committee on Health, Education, Labor, and Pensions. Page 3. June 20, 2002.

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The laws that are supposed to guarantee the right to organize unions are clearly no longer effective. I've described ways to change this elsewhere.

[natedogg]

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For those of you that feel this way, are unions inherently evil or have they just drifted that way?

I think if you deny the fact that unions have played a major role in improving working conditions/worker's rights then you are ignoring part of history. The Jungle should be mandatory reading. If drifts off into becoming a socialist pamphlet but it provides a great picture of working conditions before unions. It also doesn't just paint a rosy picture of unions, but talks about how they were often corrupt and used to exploit workers.

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Unions are a bad deal for the union members. The union, like any organization, eventually evolves to the point where its only purpose is to further *itself* as an entity.

Both my parents are in unions and they are both worse off because of it.

natedogg

[BadBoyBenny]

Why not evil?

This is called licensure. Its what physicians do. It has no relationship to the purpose of a union.

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Unions can be a great tool. Unfortunately, they aren't being used that way.

Imagine an electricians union. They screen who can get in. You have to have a level of expirience, pass tests, and prove you know what you are doing. You are then in the union. The union can sell itself as having better quality work and therefore hiring more expensive union workers is a better proposition for the company.

Most people are willing to pay a little extra for extra quality. Most companies are as well.

So where do unskilled unions come from? They offer no unique skillset, no benefits to the employer. Is it government protection that prevents the employer from simply replacing workers who demand more money without cause? Why would any business owner agree to support a union when a new workforce can be trained within a week?

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[Cyrus]

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Unions are NOW completely at odds with what may be good for the workers ... They have changed the balance of power in the employee/employer relationship to an extreme.

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Are you suggesting that the "balance of power" currently resides with the worker more than the owner? (If we are allowed to make such a clear distinction in modern economy, still.)

Then, please point out to me the data which shows the ranks of unions swelling (since being a union member empowers the worker so much, lotsa workers should be rushing to join) or the news items about union action stopping a plant from relocating to a lower-wage region. I'm interested to know.

[ACPlayer]

There was a successful company called Enron headed by a widely respected White House pal and confidant Ken Lay ... rest of well known story ....

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Corrupt and incompetent doesn't even begin to describe American Corporations.

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