Have I taken this folding thing too far?

[pineapple888]

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I know consistency isn't the goal of poker, but I'm kinda new and trying to wrap my head around some ideas. In this thread AT hand people advocated a push saying that villian is very likely to play K10 this way.

Is the differnce here, that the villian was in the blinds? I think a fold is correct, but I thought it was correct in the A10 hand also. But, I'm starting to think I'm too weak/tight.

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Nah, it's the same thing. Most people at the 33s don't understand the concept of being outkicked.

I insta-call the push, BTW.

[Scuba Chuck]

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I know consistency isn't the goal of poker, but I'm kinda new and trying to wrap my head around some ideas. In this thread AT hand people advocated a push saying that villian is very likely to play K10 this way.

Is the differnce here, that the villian was in the blinds? I think a fold is correct, but I thought it was correct in the A10 hand also. But, I'm starting to think I'm too weak/tight.

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Yes, there is quite a bit of difference, to me at least, between these two posts. In the AT hand, villain did not play from the blinds.

[soko]

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Nobody is raising AJ from the button preflop here? Why are we letting MP1 and the blinds in for a cheap flop?

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lurking around here to pick up a few tips. Mainly play limit. Please correct me but I am raising 99% of the time pre flop for this exact reason. I do not want to have a decision against j6 or whatever trash the blinds might have. You hand has +EV from late postion.Dont let the blinds play for free.

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I'm usually not raising this preflop because I'm not looking to build a pot with AJo. I'd much rather try to get paid off if I hit than raise preflop and face a likely call.

It's true that it's +EV in late position, but it's a lot harder to make this raise here than in a limit ring game where I can better forecast scenarios of how the rest of the hand goes. I don't think a raise is horrible, but I'm usually not looking to build a pot preflop this early in a tourney.

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You're sort of missing the point. You are letting MP1 and the blinds get a cheap flop. Why do you want to let people think they can limp in to a pot that you are expecting to be a favorite to win?

And why do you want to play AJ multiway? Why take a hand such as AJ that is already difficult enough to play then compound that difficulty by not trying to make it heads up after the flop?

[gildwulf]

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I don't think so, I think on this drawless flop you're usually hosed at the $30s after the 3-bet all-in.

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By what? I doubt you will, but don't list off hands that beat you, list off why he played them like that and how often you think a player would play them like that.

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when the small blind leads out into this tiny multiway pot on a board that could easily get checked around, it makes me suspect that he's trying to build a pot. would it seem worth it to him to bet a marginal hand into this 4-way 60-chip pot, trying to take it down? i don't think so, not most of the time. so when he bets i think he has at least a Jack the large majority of the time.
the MP guy calls and then the LP guy makes a small raise. the SB has to figure it's pretty likely that at least one of his opponents has a Jack. the reason i think you're beat most of the time when he 3-bets is that i think the average player at this level doesn't expect his opponent to be able to fold any sort of decent Jack here. if our villain in fact thinks this way, he's quite likely to 3-bet here with a hand that can beat TPTK because he figures to get called, and doesn't want to lose his action to any one of 12 turn scare cards. buuut i dunno if he goes ahead and pushes with a hand like QJ or JT as eagerly, cos if one of his opponents has a Jack, it doesn't figure to be smaller than J9 or so. then again he might have expected AJ & KJ to raise in LP cos he would often have raised there himself.

hmmm i'm talking myself into a call as I go. still, i do think that you'll often see a better hand here for the reasons I gave.

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Ilya, this is a great post but...honestly, you are giving the thought process of an unknown player at the 30s too much credit.

[The Don]

You've taken this "not raising preflop" thing too far.

that may be horrible, i wont disagree. but help me out here, a good fold keeps you alive. TPTK is often overplayed, IMO, so i think encouraging a solid fold is better than encouraging a weak push. I will never say that my play is optimum, but i will say it is profitable...help me out here and king...please elaborate.

re-reading the original post, here is why i thought it was a fine fold...it wasnt worth protecting for some reason, so why is it worth calling a push into such a small pot? I have made this call before and that is why i am open to the fold. I have been up against small sets...so they limp preflop and when you show any strength, like chuck did here with the re-raise, they push and lick their chops as you sit there thinking about calling. I've seen it a lot and i think TPTK is a dangerous hand...often second best. I dont mind letting certain hands go in certain situations and this happens to be one of them...

[tewall]

So it seems as a general rule, y'all are willing to go to the felt with TPTK on Party at any level.

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So it seems as a general rule, y'all are willing to go to the felt with TPTK on Party at any level.

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Tewall,

See my posts at teh bottom and please reply. I am not so willing and was told my logic is utterly horrible [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

I am willing to accept that, but i am also willing to discuss reasons as to why my logic is so flawed (in some people's opinion) Feedback is appreciated.

[tewall]

The problem with your logic (from your post at the bottom) is there isn't enough time to wait for a better situation if you're involved with what you think is a clear edge, because of the tournament structure. You can get away from from marginal situations if you don't have many chips involved.

Regarding TPTK, I would have no reservations whatsoever to go to the felt at level 2 on Party. At level 1, I wouldn't mind either if there were only a couple of opponents (i.e. 2 or 1) and the pot has been raised (and I like to raise enough so it's unlikely to get more than 2). I wouldn't have been involved in the quandry of this post in the first place because I would have either folded AJo or raised with it. If the pots been raised, it seems much easier to me to commit to the hand, as you probably only have 1 or two guys to beat, and hands like J6, J4, and 64 have been weeded out, meaning you only have to worry about higher pocket pairs and sets, and if your opponent has one of those, good for him.

Limping in an unraised pot and flopping top pair and getting that much action would make me nervous when there are 3 opponents involved. However, on that particular flop, I would find it hard to get away from the hand.