Bad time for a slow play? - Page 2

adanthar · #11 10-29-2004, 04:18 PM

Ahxh will call an all in on the flop, turn, turn.5, if you flash an ace, whenever. A big stack coldcalling QhJh on Party isn't folding this, either, though he may go all in when checked to on the flop (great!)

There's a lot of talk here about giving 'free cards' but this is not a hand where that applies. Giving a freebie will not alter the eventual outcome of the hand one iota unless he has EXACTLY one of three possible combos (QJ, QT, JT) and even then they can't both be hearts or they call anyway.

davidross · #12 10-29-2004, 04:21 PM

Its a perfect spot for a slowplay, You're not folding no matter what, and you're much more likely to get some kind of action if you let him have one more card to hit his hand. I might have even checked the turn.

Bad luck.

davidross · #13 10-29-2004, 04:26 PM

I don't think there is anything wrong with never slowplaying, so I won't disagree with you, but there are plenty of players who will make a play at this pot when they have the other player covered like this. Any pair QQ and down is terrified of that flop, and lots of players will make a play at it.

gergery · #14 10-29-2004, 04:32 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I don't think there is anything wrong with never slowplaying, so I won't disagree with you, but there are plenty of players who will make a play at this pot when they have the other player covered like this. Any pair QQ and down is terrified of that flop, and lots of players will make a play at it.

[/ QUOTE ]

If they'd make a play at it, then they'd also make a play if you bet out small at it. and that builds a pot better, yes?

Maybe its not a terrible spot for a slowplay, but i'd think raising is better.

Chief911 · #15 10-29-2004, 05:21 PM

I'll disagree with a few people who say to slowplay.

This is an AWFUL time to slowplay. You just hit trips, and have 1/3 of your stack invested.

While you might extract more chips by giving a free card, you also set yourself up.

I would list one of the biggest keys to any success I've had in the last two months with MTT's is not slowplaying hands that I'm most likely not willing to let go. Hands I will gladly slowplay are Boats, Flushes, and Quads (duh). Slowplying trips on a flush/straight board was a HUGE mistake. You already got some value out of your hand, and might get more if you push the flop (Especially if he has a nice fat hand like AK, or such).

You absolutely cannot give out a free card here, unless you want to have to fold to an allin bet if Q, J, T, or heart hits. Get your value from the chips in the pot, and someone possibly making a stupid call with a 2nd best or drawing hand.

Punch that pot postflop by going all in. Believe in the cow.

davidross · #16 10-29-2004, 05:26 PM

He never had a chance to raise. He's acting first. He checked the flop and bet the turn.

davidross · #17 10-29-2004, 05:30 PM

Pushing on the flop here probably wins what's already in there 98% of the time with no call. We are playing this hand to the end no matter what, we have the nuts, and if we get drawn out on we still have outs to the nuts. I think we're being a little over cautious here.

remen · #18 10-29-2004, 06:34 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Its a perfect spot for a slowplay, You're not folding no matter what, and you're much more likely to get some kind of action if you let him have one more card to hit his hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

What hand could he hit that doesn't beat the trip aces, but stills pays off the trips? Maybe he could hit a lower set, but I can't really think of anything else. There is a much better chance of the turn/river bringing a card that gives your opponent the best hand (completing a broadway straight or a flush) than the turn/river giving your opponent the second best hand. I think the pot is big enough already on the flop that pushing is right.

KKsuited · #19 10-29-2004, 07:00 PM

I have to disagree with you David. This looks to me like an obvious spot to never slow play. What hands can be hit that don't beat you? Not many. Forget the fact you have trip aces, they're no good against the hands that are probably being drawn for. You also have to consider a slow play not only costs you the pot, but the tournament as well.

I wouldn't ever agree with this play, but if the guy wasn't covered it may help.

davidross · #20 10-29-2004, 07:34 PM

I wasn't thinking of it in terms of him making a 2nd best hand, but rather giving the big stack a chance to play bully. I have more outs to the full house than anyone does of hitting their gutshot, and I'll have more outs again on the river than someone chasing a flush. I'm never putting the guy on JT, I'm thinking more in terms of a pair JJ down. I just believe this is a case where I think my hand is worth more than is just in the pot already, and my chances of getting more by checking are higher than my chances of losing the pot by checking.

I'm certainly not criticising anyone who bets here, but I would check that flop 100% of the time. But I also check top pair a lot in NL tournaments. I'm pretty sure this is part of the reason I keep going 20 or 30 tournaments without cashing, but also probably explains why I seem to make high finishes when I do cash. I seem to be quite (too?) willing to take risks in these situations.