Comments on TSP's private game with Dcfir, schneids, alexsem etc. - Page 2

Schneids · #11 08-16-2005, 07:20 PM

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And one more against Schneids...

Party Poker 15/30 Hold'em (4 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is SB with 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
2 folds, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: (2 SB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets, Hero raises, BB calls.

Turn: (3 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, BB calls.

River: (5 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, BB raises, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 9 BB

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Let me just say that I was and still am very pleased with this river raise.

ggbman · #12 08-16-2005, 07:24 PM

It baffled the crap out of me out at the time, and i seriously did consider mucking. You and I were playing pretty liberally with each other, so i thought it was entirely possible you had a 4. However, after recalling this hand

Party Poker 15/30 Hold'em (4 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is UTG with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
1 fold, Button raises, SB 3-bets, 1 fold, Button calls.

Flop: (7 SB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets, Button calls.

Turn: (4.50 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets, Button calls.

River: (6.50 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets, Button raises, SB calls.

Final Pot: 10.50 BB

Results in white below: 
Button has 5h 5d (two pair, fives and twos).
SB has Qs 7d (one pair, twos).
Outcome: Button wins 10.50 BB. 

where you popped the river with 55, i felt your range on this river raise was broad. I seriously would love to know how you had the balls to make that value raise in that spot, i am never getting that extra bet in?

Schneids · #13 08-16-2005, 07:35 PM

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where you popped the river with 55, i felt your range on this river raise was broad. I seriously would love to know how you had the balls to make that value raise in that spot, i am never getting that extra bet in?

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I try to really know my image well and consider their whole range of hands and what I think they'll call me with. I thought he'd call me with king high or better and I thought a fair share of the time he has an ace high and insta calls. The fact I got a Q-high call was gravy. I knew I easily had the image to pull it off and get called by a lot-lot-lot of worse hands.

Basically, my whole thought process was in that Q3 hand against you was it might be a value raise though I was really doing it to try to steal a whole pot from another 8 since I had no kicker and plus you knew I wasn't folding pairs so you might think I actually have trips and fold a better hand plus this is a type of board where if you 3 bet me I can pretty easily muck my 8.

Basically, the crazier my image, the more I make marginal raises because I know they're going to get called by even more marginal hands. Plus, you gotta know in the past 36 hrs I had just went through 4 straight sessions of starting off -$10,000 in 20 or less minutes (and during this game was experiencing #4 during my announced 5-minutes of TILT). So, the game was therapeutic as much as anything for me (hence why I think I was playing about C+ poker in it).

I know there were a few instances I went overboard but there were also instances where I know I was making very good raises/call downs/folds. At worst, it was a good exercise for me to try playing the style of play quite a few of my common opponents play vs me.

Schneids · #14 08-16-2005, 07:39 PM

BTW in the Q9 hand when you 3 bet me on the river I seriously said outloud "he's got exactly Q9" and I called anyway (had T8 myself).

ggbman · #15 08-16-2005, 07:48 PM

The last time we played, i donated quite a bit of money because i got off my game due to your table image. After realizing that in addition to running bad, you outplayed just about as bad as anyone ever has, i knew not to get as out of line this time against you.

I was absolutley flabbergasted at the river raise and river call with Q high in that hand, making plays like that still are not in my repetorie. It's not that i don't know alex would have called with an ace, but given the action, i could fathom that was all he had. One thing about playing this game is i felt forced to vary my play much more than i do when i play my usual games. It's definitly good practice and it makes me a better player. The money i last time i played one of these in March has been recouped several times over because of thing i learned in that game, primarily from observing you. I don't know if i'm +EV in this little gatherings, but they are very fun and i enjoy getting a chance to work on my game. Hopefully we can play some more of them in the future. I think i recall a few more hands i wanted to post, but i don't remember them now. Also, one more q... On my AA vs. your K-10 hand. Would have have 3 bet the river if you were me? And what inspired that turn check when you hit the T? I knew you weren't raising the river without a good hand, but i didn't see how i couldn't three bet. I knew i was beat when you capped, but i still can't make those folds...

ggbman · #16 08-16-2005, 07:51 PM

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BTW in the Q9 hand when you 3 bet me on the river I seriously said outloud "he's got exactly Q9" and I called anyway (had T8 myself).

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Yeah, i was happy with that hand, i finally got the balls to 3 bet you on the turn with a semi-strong hand. I've noticed since i've started playing in tougher games that i don't get the value out of some hands like this one, but i just got this feel you had some pair+gutter combo after you called the flop.

Schneids · #17 08-16-2005, 08:12 PM

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On my AA vs. your K-10 hand. Would have have 3 bet the river if you were me?

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Yes.
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And what inspired that turn check when you hit the T? I knew you weren't raising the river without a good hand, but i didn't see how i couldn't three bet. I knew i was beat when you capped, but i still can't make those folds...

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At that point we still hadn't really fvcked with eachtoher yet and you were playing really tight so I felt like it was extremely likely I was still behind. I raised the flop planning to check behind any turn even if it improved me. Yes, without the king river I was going to just call. I felt like you were pretty much going to have JJ+ or AK most of the time, so, when the ten came on the turn I no longer cared about giving AK a free shot as I thought that risk exceeded the very strong likelihood you were going to c/r me.

KDawgCometh · #18 08-16-2005, 08:14 PM

as an ss poster and lurker here I'd really love to hear the thought process of as many of the interesting hands. I was railbirding the game and really enjoyed watching it, I'd just like to hear what was the thinking behind some of the plays, because I know there is a much different thought process in this game then what I am used to at the limits I play

TStoneMBD · #19 08-16-2005, 08:41 PM

schneids, seeing that you like to employ a river valuebluff-raise during certain images, do you feel that an exploitable weakness of yours if a river 3bet bluff by the opposing player? i have not personally seen you play, but if i was playing with you and observed you making river raises like this i would certainly try to take advantage of it in the future. of coures, hearing you discuss this play here makes it easier for me to contemplate counterstrategies against it rather than if you were an unknown and i knew less about your thought process.

DcifrThs · #20 08-16-2005, 08:53 PM

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It should be obvious, that against smart, thinking players, you must vary your play.

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or that against smart thinking players you dont vary your play...

i try it all.

-Barron