Facing yet another turn checkraise

[skp]

Party 15 game

3 limpers. I am 2 off the button and also limp with 7c5c. Both blinds in and we have 6 way action with me having the button for the rest of the hand.

Flop: Jd8c4h

bb bets. 2 folds. Next guy who is to my immediate right calls. I call. 3 players.

Turn: Jh

Both players check.

I bet. bb folds. Other guy checkraises.

How should I now play this hand out?

[DcifrThs]

SKP,

what happened here?

i just had to explain to a newbie poster why its bad to play 75s after 2 limpers and then YOU post about a hand where you played it after 3.

he's gunna read this and, if he knows who you are, say, "well it must be close since two regular posters disagree about it" and go on to play it and lose chips.

if you're playing 60*3 or 4 or 6 or 8 you're playing between 180 and 480 hands per hour. this 75s isn't gunna make that much money and you're either out of position with the # of players you want or you're in position with too few players.

the guy who called on the flop did so most likely with the intention of either taking a freebee/calling/or checkraising the turn. you don't have a hand and can't beat a bluff with 7 high. the only way to win this pot is by reraising or calling and spiking a 6.

i don't like it. you're getting 6.5:1 with 4 cards that'll help on the turn. not enough. bail.

i ONLY like the flop call as you're implied odd should there be a jack out there are good enough to warrant peeling one off to see whats up. if you hit a 6 good, if not fold. textbook.

also, stop posting things directly contrary to what i say immediately after i say them [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

take care,

-Barron

[2005]

I was just thinking the same thing when I started reading this post... what's the big lure to playing 75s anyways. I play this hand in very few situations and most of them aren't in a LHE game. If this was PLHE or NLHE and the money was deep or you were playing an 8-way pot with the button and a passive table I would like this call , but I don't think it's worth it in this situation.

Gavin

http://www.gavingriffin.com

[lil']

What's so bad about playing a suited one gapper after three limpers? I'd play this too.

I'd probably take the free card in your spot on the turn. After the raise, I'm folding.

[DcifrThs]

[ QUOTE ]
What's so bad about playing a suited one gapper after three limpers? I'd play this too.

I'd probably take the free card in your spot on the turn. After the raise, I'm folding.

[/ QUOTE ]

why would you play this after 3 limpers? would you play 65s? 54s? 76s im assuming is a gimme seeing how its better than 75s.

in holdem, big cards hold up much more frequently that small cards. this hand can HIT its hand and still lose, make a draw that requires you to take almost break even odds, and still not be totally happy about it since you're less likely to get paid handsomely and win a big pot which is always my goal with suited connectors or 1 gappers.

also, what are you're PT stats for this hand? pokerroom's EV stats don't speak to highly of them.

-Barron

[Six_of_One]

Disclaimer: I don't play 15 on Party.

The turn raise seems suspicious to me. Perhaps he just picked up a flush draw, maybe A8 or something. I'd be surprised if he had a jack. The problem is, you don't have jack either [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

You can just fold now, of course. The other option is to play it strong to try and push him off his hand. If he has an 8, will he fold to your 3-bet? And, if he has a flush draw, will he fold Ace high on the river if he misses? If the answers are yes, I would 3-bet here. Otherwise, I think the best thing is to just fold.

[lil']

would you play 65s? 54s? 76s im assuming is a gimme seeing how its better than 75s.
Yes, yes, and yes.

in holdem, big cards hold up much more frequently that small cards.
OK, now you're talking to me like I'm a noob.

this hand can HIT its hand and still lose
I'll worry about flush over flush when I'm dead. Seriously, this is very rare.

and still not be totally happy about it since you're less likely to get paid handsomely and win a big pot which is always my goal with suited connectors or 1 gappers.
We're talking about 5 or 6 way action minimum here in an unraised pot. These conditions are pretty ideal for suited connectors and one gappers.

Don't worry, I have standards though! On the small stakes board a poster limped in on the button with 7-6s after one limper, and I usually wait for 2 limpers in that spot.

Stealing Mood: 76s

[cosmo kramer]

3-bet or fold, IMO. It depends on his awareness of you at the table. If he knows what he's going and pays attention, he knows you don't have a Jack because you didn't raise the flop. If he is this kind of player and is capable of a bluff like this, a 3-bet might work. If he is pretty straightforward, then a fold is in order.

[Coilean]

Alright, I'll play the devil's advocate here [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img].

It seems highly unlikely that this guy was sitting on much of a hand on the flop, and then tries to go for a check raise on the turn with only one player behind him who didn't make a move on the flop: it looks like a "Well, I may not have much and would have been happy to see the river for free, but I'm pretty sure you don't have anything either, so take this!" raise. Maybe he's sitting on a monster, but it seems a lot easier for him to have picked up a heart draw or just to have decided to try push you off your obvious nothing than it is for him to have slowplayed J8/88/44 twice or played a J so oddly on the flop here (especially considering there was already $105 in the pot when the flop action got to him).

As it stands now, there are 7.5BB in the pot, which gives you very favorable drawing odds should you have 7 outs against a flush draw or 10 outs against a pure bluff (we'll spot your opponent credit for better than 7 high at least [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]). Given that you may have calling odds a decent percentage of the time anyway, I think it could be worth taking another stab at this one.

However, the manner of your stabbing isn't an obvious decision, since a heart draw is sure to call the turn reraise, forcing you to bluff again on the river anyway, and if he's on a pure bluff, you now have a chance to pick up another bet by raising him off his hand on the river. Of course, the dangers of waiting until the river to make your move are that he now pairs up and calls when he might have folded to a turn reraise, or decides to call with an ace high he would have folded to a turn reraise, seeing as how it's only one more bet to see your hand at that point.

I kind of like the river raise though, as it should seem like a stronger hand if your opponent bothers to read hands, and may make him more likely to dump an ace high or small pair (of particular concern if he was on a heart draw, as seems fairly likely). A little player knowledge could help here, as if you judge him likely to call down with ace high or a small pocket or rivered pair anyway (and this is Party, where IIIRC, not much river folding goes on), reraising the turn is probably the better choice. Of course, you could always just choose to give up on the turn before digging yourself into this hole at all, but where's the fun in that? [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[mike l.]

i cant imagine what would induce you to bet the turn there. seems pretty awful to me. just take the free card and stay out of trouble.