John Feeney's AQ test on Party

[ActionBob]

Thanks for the input Andrew. The other thing to consider, especially if you don't often play the Party 15 games and may not see this in games you play, is the money you will get in from the players behind you who are going to put in 3 bets just as easily as 2 with their ragged aces and KQ and all sorts of other trash as well. I certainly don't have any numbers to go with this, but I would say its extremely common for this to happen. In fact I'd guess that its a small minority of Party 15 players who are going to fold KQ or AT for 3 bets cold. There can be many times you both are making a lot of profit from the calls by the other players even when you are a dog to the initial raiser.

-ActionBob

[Nate tha' Great]

[ QUOTE ]

What about the dead money in the blinds? 10% of the average pot? Add that in!

You can't add that in. Or to be more precise, there are so many things to add in (implied odds, betting, folding, other players who may have AA, etc...) that the only way to properly account for them all is to use something like TTH to run simulations.

- Andrew

www.pokerstove.com

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Of course you can add that in. If there were no blinds, then I don't know that 3-betting with AQo would be worth it (nor with any hand save AA, but you get the point).

[Buckshot]

Same filters. ~85k hands. I'm in bed with 3-betting.

AQs .94BB /100
AQo .64BB /100

~stephen

[bicyclekick]

My db's are split but this is my recent one - ~100k hands

7-10 players

AQo - .60
AQs - 1.07

I hate to jump on the bandwaggon...but saying that 88 and qjs aren't profitable utg is misguided.

[droidboy]

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Anyway here's what I've got filtered for 7-10 handed games (111,000 hands).
AQs 1.31 BB/hand
AQo .54 BB/hand


[/ QUOTE ]

I'd like to make a special point that I nearly always 3-bet early position raisers with AQs, it's AQo that I tend to fold by default. Actually, I pretty much always four-bet with AQs preflop.

Are the results you quote for early position only?

Your sample size is miniscule (~330 hands for AQs and ~1000 for AQo), so it's really hard to judge the results. Results don't really start to converge to stable numbers till you get upward of 10K samples.

It really comes down to what the UTG raise is raising with. If they are raising with less than 10% of their hands, you are kacked. If they are raising with 15% or more you are fine three betting with AQo. In between 10-15% is a grey area, and really depends on the player. I know pros that open-raise up front with 22% of their hands. I also know pros who open with only 9% of their hands up front.

[ActionBob]

I understand the sample will be very small as I posted when asking for them. I was just trying to get a general feel for results between players in the "AQ jam it up camp" and the "AQ play it a bit more carefully vs raisers camp".

-ActionBob

[droidboy]

[ QUOTE ]
I understand the sample will be very small as I posted when asking for them. I was just trying to get a general feel for results between players in the "AQ jam it up camp" and the "AQ play it a bit more carefully vs raisers camp".


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For what it's worth, simulations I've done indicate that you should always three-bet a lone raiser with AQo if they are opening at about the right frequency. Despite that, I'm much more cautious versus early raisers who know what they are doing.

I guess I'm just a wuss.

[img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

- Andrew