Choose your own adventure.

[Godfather80]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Well, if he bluffs a lot and plays big pots with crappy hands all the time why are you so eager to play a big pot with an overpair oop?

[/ QUOTE ]

can you read what you just typed, i mean, is the answer not clear here?

[/ QUOTE ]

I usually hate the "there are better spots" argument, but in this case I'll open an exception

EDIT: just to clarify something here: I'm saying he should fold on an ace high flop or something idiotic like that, I'm not even sure not reraising pf is the best thing to do, I'm just saying QQ is not the kind of hand with wich I hope to play a big pot, if it happens against this guy...well, you're probably ahead, so ok, but as a default plan I'm not sure I like it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Fallen,
I think you are losing out on a great deal of value if aren't able to play aggressively in these situations with the 3rd strongest hand heads up preflop against a tricky aggro opponent. Against a weak-tight player, I might agree with you, but you need to be able to make a player like villain pay when you have the chance.

And the chance won't always be with AA on the button.

[rachelwxm]

I like a push here. If he raise flop with flush draw, he likely take a free card on turn unless he has Ax [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] on a flush draw+TP combo on turn. But with those odds, you cannot fold set here if he pushes. On the other hand, he might very well check his ace especially if his kicker is small. A push is smaller than the potk, but it looks like a desperate bluff with air or flush and I expect he payoff with ace.

[DoomSlice]

I like a check here. If he has a strong Ace he is going to bet it hoping you make crying call (turn call indicates you probably would call a smallish bet). If he was bluffing the turn, he probably isn't going to pay you unless he bluffs again. And of course if he made his flush you don't want him putting you all in after you bet strong.

[Fallen Hero]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Well, if he bluffs a lot and plays big pots with crappy hands all the time why are you so eager to play a big pot with an overpair oop?

[/ QUOTE ]

can you read what you just typed, i mean, is the answer not clear here?

[/ QUOTE ]

I usually hate the "there are better spots" argument, but in this case I'll open an exception

EDIT: just to clarify something here: I'm saying he should fold on an ace high flop or something idiotic like that, I'm not even sure not reraising pf is the best thing to do, I'm just saying QQ is not the kind of hand with wich I hope to play a big pot, if it happens against this guy...well, you're probably ahead, so ok, but as a default plan I'm not sure I like it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Fallen,
I think you are losing out on a great deal of value if aren't able to play aggressively in these situations with the 3rd strongest hand heads up preflop against a tricky aggro opponent. Against a weak-tight player, I might agree with you, but you need to be able to make a player like villain pay when you have the chance.

And the chance won't always be with AA on the button.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why is everyone being so pf centered? :| I'm hoping to play big pots with big post flop hands, not AA,KK,QQ or any other specific starting hand.

[Godfather80]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Well, if he bluffs a lot and plays big pots with crappy hands all the time why are you so eager to play a big pot with an overpair oop?

[/ QUOTE ]

can you read what you just typed, i mean, is the answer not clear here?

[/ QUOTE ]

I usually hate the "there are better spots" argument, but in this case I'll open an exception

EDIT: just to clarify something here: I'm saying he should fold on an ace high flop or something idiotic like that, I'm not even sure not reraising pf is the best thing to do, I'm just saying QQ is not the kind of hand with wich I hope to play a big pot, if it happens against this guy...well, you're probably ahead, so ok, but as a default plan I'm not sure I like it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Fallen,
I think you are losing out on a great deal of value if aren't able to play aggressively in these situations with the 3rd strongest hand heads up preflop against a tricky aggro opponent. Against a weak-tight player, I might agree with you, but you need to be able to make a player like villain pay when you have the chance.

And the chance won't always be with AA on the button.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why is everyone being so pf centered? :| I'm hoping to play big pots with big post flop hands, not AA,KK,QQ or any other specific starting hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hopefully you can get all of your opponents to cooperate with you on that.

[Fallen Hero]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Well, if he bluffs a lot and plays big pots with crappy hands all the time why are you so eager to play a big pot with an overpair oop?

[/ QUOTE ]

can you read what you just typed, i mean, is the answer not clear here?

[/ QUOTE ]

I usually hate the "there are better spots" argument, but in this case I'll open an exception

EDIT: just to clarify something here: I'm saying he should fold on an ace high flop or something idiotic like that, I'm not even sure not reraising pf is the best thing to do, I'm just saying QQ is not the kind of hand with wich I hope to play a big pot, if it happens against this guy...well, you're probably ahead, so ok, but as a default plan I'm not sure I like it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Fallen,
I think you are losing out on a great deal of value if aren't able to play aggressively in these situations with the 3rd strongest hand heads up preflop against a tricky aggro opponent. Against a weak-tight player, I might agree with you, but you need to be able to make a player like villain pay when you have the chance.

And the chance won't always be with AA on the button.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why is everyone being so pf centered? :| I'm hoping to play big pots with big post flop hands, not AA,KK,QQ or any other specific starting hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hopefully you can get all of your opponents to cooperate with you on that.

[/ QUOTE ]

So we think we're much better than villain, what do we do to prove it? Get stacked on an overpair :| I hate it

[djoyce003]

[ QUOTE ]

Well, if he bluffs a lot and plays big pots with crappy hands all the time why are you so eager to play a big pot with an overpair oop?

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]


EDIT: just to clarify something here: I'm saying he should fold on an ace high flop or something idiotic like that, I'm not even sure not reraising pf is the best thing to do, I'm just saying QQ is not the kind of hand with wich I hope to play a big pot, if it happens against this guy...well, you're probably ahead, so ok, but as a default plan I'm not sure I like it.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]


So we think we're much better than villain, what do we do to prove it? Get stacked on an overpair :| I hate it

[/ QUOTE ]

Fallen I know you probably think everyone is picking on you, but lets think about this logically. We wouldn't play an overpair against this guy if we limped AA preflop or something and then got tons of action post flop.....then yeah if we are getting a ton of action he could be crazy and have some random two pair hand. But in this hand we built a large pot preflop,thereby forcing a large pot on this guy with most likely bad cards....now we've got him tied to this large pot because it's so big he doesn't want to get away from his hand. That's the point....you build the pot early and his range of hands he'll get agressive with increases DRAMATICALLY. These are exactly the situations that you'd look to play a big pot, against a loose aggressive opponent with a large pot built preflop...it's hard to misplay your hand at that point. If you aren't looking to play large pots with AA against villains that will bluff three streets or stay in with second pair then you are probably losing value.

As for this point

[ QUOTE ]
Why is everyone being so pf centered? :| I'm hoping to play big pots with big post flop hands, not AA,KK,QQ or any other specific starting hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you not realize that if you get it all in preflop with AA you are a significant favorite over any other hand...why in the hell would you not want to play a big pot preflop with AA? You need to really think about the way you are playing I think based on these comments.

[Fallen Hero]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Well, if he bluffs a lot and plays big pots with crappy hands all the time why are you so eager to play a big pot with an overpair oop?

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]


EDIT: just to clarify something here: I'm saying he should fold on an ace high flop or something idiotic like that, I'm not even sure not reraising pf is the best thing to do, I'm just saying QQ is not the kind of hand with wich I hope to play a big pot, if it happens against this guy...well, you're probably ahead, so ok, but as a default plan I'm not sure I like it.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]


So we think we're much better than villain, what do we do to prove it? Get stacked on an overpair :| I hate it

[/ QUOTE ]

Fallen I know you probably think everyone is picking on you, but lets think about this logically. We wouldn't play an overpair against this guy if we limped AA preflop or something and then got tons of action post flop.....then yeah if we are getting a ton of action he could be crazy and have some random two pair hand. But in this hand we built a large pot preflop,thereby forcing a large pot on this guy with most likely bad cards....now we've got him tied to this large pot because it's so big he doesn't want to get away from his hand. That's the point....you build the pot early and his range of hands he'll get agressive with increases DRAMATICALLY. These are exactly the situations that you'd look to play a big pot, against a loose aggressive opponent with a large pot built preflop...it's hard to misplay your hand at that point. If you aren't looking to play large pots with AA against villains that will bluff three streets or stay in with second pair then you are probably losing value.

As for this point

[ QUOTE ]
Why is everyone being so pf centered? :| I'm hoping to play big pots with big post flop hands, not AA,KK,QQ or any other specific starting hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you not realize that if you get it all in preflop with AA you are a significant favorite over any other hand...why in the hell would you not want to play a big pot preflop with AA? You need to really think about the way you are playing I think based on these comments.

[/ QUOTE ]

wtf, you think I'm such an idiot that I don't know I'm a huge favourite all-in pf with AA?
You're not getting all-in pf, you're not even putting a significant portion of your stack in the pot pf.

If the guy is a maniac that will bluff all three streets than check calling is the way to go. "Postflop he bets a lot, but doesn't often bet big. He will also bluff three streets no problem. He generally seems to respect my raises though", if the guy respects your raises why are you putting yourselft in a situation where the guy will most likely not do his usual 3barrel bluffing but he will stack you if he has something since you can't fold safely knowing you're beat.

[djoyce003]

ok you are right, everyone else on the forum is wrong.

[c_strong]

It seems to me that the issue isn't whether the pot is big or small but *when* it gets big. Your big pair's equity is highest pf and decreases steadily as you go from flop to river (over n hands where n is large - not talking about specific boards here). This means you want to play fast pf and fast on the flop, your aim being to take the pot down without seeing later streets. Trying to keep the pot small pf and on the flop just gives drawing hands and lower pairs the implied odds they need to stay with you. Pot control becomes more important on the turn if the hand lasts that long, as your one pair hand is less likely to be good when all five cards are out.

Obviously all this is highly dependant on specific opponents, flop texture etc. etc. and doesn't allow for making plays but this seems logical to me. I'm open to persuasion though as I don't think I've quite got the hang of this pot control business...